Talk:Spring Onion

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This talk page is for discussing Spring Onion.
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Hey guy! I have found a bug with those cute little Spring Onion, though I'm on PS4 I have no idea if it can be done/exploited on PC, XBox One or NSwitch. I take advantage of it early in game because of space allowed in the bag and the use for food or money early at start. First you need to get your hand on either a Silver or Gold Star Spring Onion. Next fill your inventory with any items and make sure you keep the 1 Silver/Gold Star Spring Onion and no other in it. Then when you go to get some Spring Onion you will get the Inventory Full message but keep pressing/mashing the pick up button until the game let you pick up the Spring Onion, who will now be of the same Quality of your Silver/Gold Spring Onion. Can anyone try that out on the other console to see if it can be used/exploited? (DamiFides (talk) 15:15, 3 November 2017 (UTC))

I have seen youtube videos where this works on PC. I've not tried it myself, but I looked at the code, and don't see why it wouldn't work for all platforms. Go ahead and add it to the page. It's a neat little trick, especially if your inventory is only 12 spaces.  :) margotbean (talk) 16:50, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Alright, I have added it in note section, if you got the link of the video it would be nice to add it too, no? (Dami Fides (talk) 17:32, 3 November 2017 (UTC))

Good job on the note; as for the video -- NO!! No no nononono! I think we need fewer links to youtube videos on the wiki, not more. The reason is that adding a link to the official wiki implies that the video is somehow endorsed by the developers (it seems that way to me). Also, the videos I've seen are not always appropriate (contain swearing or sexual references). They're not really reliable sources, either. They're just people playing around with the game, but not performing scientific analysis or even looking at the game code.
So, I don't mean to yell at you or seem upset, but "Noooooo!"  :) margotbean (talk) 17:41, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Bug or Exploit?

May I edit DamiFides's exploit text? I'm an absolutely new user and don't want to step on anyone's toes... but, it isn't a bug. It's just exploitable code. IIRC, all forage item quality was originally randomized when harvested and this exploit applied to all forage items. Removing the exploit required a rewrite that randomized the quality when the forage item spawned, then preserved that quality and saved it in the game file. I haven't looked at the game code for the Spring Onions but they do seem to differ from normal forage items in many ways. I think it's a safe assumption that removing the exploit from the Spring Onions would have required it's own unique coding solution and the exploit was left in out of convenience. It is a really nice early game exploit and I've used it for quite some time on PC, but I don't believe it's a bug... <NEW USER ANGST> I'm going to just go ahead a make the edit. It's not a bug. It's legacy code that can be exploited, but it is functioning perfectly, as written. BentFX (talk) 00:16, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

I wouldn't complain about the edit; it's fine. But the question "is it a bug or is it a feature?" is an age-old question around engineering departments. Looking at it from the engineering side (where I spent many years working on other types of software), I'd call this a bug. True, it's a consistent bug. And true, it's not particularly harmful. I call it a bug because it just doesn't work in a way that seems designed or regular. Why create this behavior? There's no cogent reason or driving force to demand it.
One engineering answer to the question is to define a bug as a behavior that someone views as harmful or irregular enough to take the trouble to fix it. And as you say, sometimes changing a think that is little on the surface takes much work underneath, and just clearly falls into the category "not worth it".
But the other thing is that a bug is the opposite of a feature (and vice versa). Bugs and exploits are not opposites. I've exploited bugs in many kinds of software (including MS Excel), to good purpose and with completely reliable results. And I also exploit features to do what I'm looking for. For example, I grab the first Coffee Bean I can buy in year 1 and grow it and its produce into a field as large as I can handle, and then work the farming to death throughout summer. It brings better profits more easily than I can get them any other way, and in exactly that time when opportunities and choices are as limited as they get in the game. It's a farm development opportunity. But by year 2, there are better and more efficient ways to get the greater amounts of money needed to continue. So I exploit Coffee Beans while they're at their best.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with exploiting a bug. Go for it! It's not cheating. The only risk is that the engineering team will decide that the exploit yields too much benefit and throws the game balances off, so they end up fixing it eventually. In other words, no risk, just limited time to benefit. If they don't change it, then the assessment is that it doesn't hurt to have it as a game element, buggish though it may be, so where's the cheat? What isn't forbidden is permitted, as the saying goes. As with opinions like this one. ;) Butterbur (talk) 07:25, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply Butterbur. I'm no computer science major or tech wizard but I've messed with it a bit. My only aversion to the word bug is that it's become a ubiquitous catch-all for "flawed programming" among those who haven't messed with it a bit. And then it's thrown around as a derisive term equating to "flawed programmers." As I see it, an exploit is something that speedrunners or min/maxers want to understand and possibly use to their benefit, and a bug is something haters want to blog about. I think it's just an overused word, which in it's popular usage has come to be nearly meaningless, beyond meaning just "bad programming." I did go into that edit intending to just cut out the word, but ended up rewriting the whole thing. That's my bad, because obviously it could still be worded better... But that's my curse... I've struggled with this short paragraph for far too long, and still would probably delete it, given a second chance. Have Fun! BentFX (talk) 01:16, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Hey thanks. I wouldn't get too upset about people who mouth off (i.e., blog). There have always been complainers, and they spend their energy in a kind of snark-mongering instead of getting a life. When you're doing something useful, or even just fun, mistakes happen, oversights happen, and weirdness happens. I take a breath, and maybe laugh. Next comes evaluation. And then you address the issue. Or not. Depends on how serious or important or urgent or... Or you shrug and walk away. This is how engineers work, and it's the only practical thing to do. So it's the undue criticisms that are flawed.
And by the way, they're called "bugs" because one day in 1949, when computers were built with mechanical relays to make electrical connections, a senior scientist who prided himself in getting his programs right the first time (it was no end of mess to make changes then - programs were holes punched in rolls of paper!), was furious when his program failed to get the right answer, and set out to prove the machine had failed to execute it properly. After much circuit testing and checking of wire connections, still no problem had been exposed. That was when he finally looked at a relay, and discovered that an insect (bug) had crawled into the location where the relay made the electrical connection, thus interrupting the circuit, and turning a one-bit into a zero-bit. Mechanical failure due to bug splat! - the bug in his program. Which is to say, a real bug is not the programmer's fault!
Now tell me, am I exploiting the (true) history of bugs to discredit the complainers? If so, I would argue it's to everyone's benefit, so use it whenever it comes in handy (which I agree is often). Then smile. Because one bit of difference is the bug meat for the bait. :-) Butterbur (talk) 06:01, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Harvest Quantities

At one time, the wiki had verbiage indicating a range for how many Spring Onions could be found in a day, since removed, and apparently for good reason. I have since seen spring days with no new onions, and I had seen as many as 23 or 24. Just now, I have seen 33 onions spawned on 21 Spring, far and away higher than any other time in my experience. I would say this anecdotal evidence is a good indicator that no artificial upper limit is set on spring onion spawning. There is, of course, the natural limit imposed by the number of tiles where they can spawn, but that's got to be at least double what I'm seeing right now. Butterbur (talk) 16:10, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

It's taken almost a year, but I'm now looking at 29 onions, again on 21 Spring, the largest I've had since the first message. Looks like there's still no artificial upper limit in v1.4.3. But what's this thing about 21 Spring? Butterbur (talk) 05:44, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
I see nothing related to daysPlayed or dayOfSeason in the code. The random used is the main game random. Must just be chance.
I also see no upper limit in code BlaDe (talk) 08:42, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
No surprise, but thanks for confirmation. Quantities *can* get surprisingly large, though, eh? Butterbur (talk) 08:53, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

1.4 RNG

Unlike other foragables in the game, Spring Onion spawn chances are not determined by the game ID / seed. Their RNG is initialized based on the "global" RNG, which is not tied to your system clock and for all intents and purposes is completely random. (Thus, while an already-created save file will have the same numbers of Spring Onions if you replay the day over and over, a separate save file that is manually set to the same game ID / seed will potentially have a different number of Spring Onions.) --Zamiel (talk) 15:30, 28 January 2019 (UTC)