Talk:Dyeing
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Make white with common sense spare/reproducible items
People ask on the forums and in Reddit how to create white pants/skirts for their character's wedding since the picture on the wiki display only as yellow/orange. Since there is no reference to white as a dyeable color at all (normally it isn't, and normally you'd never mix colors to get white, you'd start with white) this is incredibly unintuitive. Many seem to assume early on that white bottoms cant be made at all (they can). Players also can't start with white fabric for pants, the default is yellow/orange which helps to reinforce the perception of white not being dyebale, along with most learning color theory that white is not a color that can be mixed in real-life. Because of this, many also don't expect white to appear in the "color" mixer, only discovering it much later in the game after the rainbow shell (or more precious for new folks, the prismatic shard) is not needed for other things, which is a shame. A screenshot of the color mixer would also be quite helpful to illustrate this, for folks that don't read every word.
Players can place one more readily available crystalariam-reproducible item of each color in the dye pots to trigger the color mixer, which allows players to select white (not obvious because it's not how dye works in life) and doesn't eat up non-reproducible items.
I'd add it but whatever I add gets reversed (obtainable in 1.5-only items marked as spoiler for confused mobile users that can't find them--because they can't actually get them at all), so would someone (sanctioned to) please be so kind as to add it? It is a shame for people to have to go to Reddit to find lots of stuff, would be great to have it added here on the wiki. Thanks. :) Username_Removed (talk) 03:30, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
- All that info is already on the page, players simply need to read it. A wiki can do only so much for those who don't wish to "read every word". The history section is also valuable for those who don't wish to read all that much. margotbean (talk) 14:31, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
- Respecfully I did "simply read" the page, I'm not one of the proposed people who "don't wish to read every word" (please don't make the assumption), white and black are shades, not colors the article statements you mention refer only to colors. White is the literal absence of color, meaning several statements on the page are incorrect, not my reading of it. The words "pants" or "skirts" appear nowhere, nor is it mentioned that putting one of each color item in each dye pot creates colors and shades such as black or white--white being not dyeable at all in real life (warranting elaboration). It also says: "a menu will pop up with color sliders (similar to the character creation menu) that allow you to choose any color", again black/white/grey are not colors. Also, more than just color sliders appear, hue/saturation/brightness (HSB) sliders appear, which is the correct terminology. Anyone with a novice understanding of color, paint, dying, graphics or web colors (or took an art class on high school even) may assume the same shade dying issue of analog-represented, dye pots colors), without proper mention of what is really contained therein. Even stating digital HSB color/shade sliders appear would be much more clear. People with knowledge of color naturally don't think to try mixing or dying an absence of color by conbining color, which is likely why there are posts asking about it elsewhere. It also wrongly states below the Dye Strength section first table: "Shown below is an expandable table of all items that can be used to dye clothing at the sewing machine," and it lists white items, except that white items cannot be used for pants or skirts at the sewing machine in my game (an unmentioned exception?). All of this could be prevented by including an image of the sliders, even if you reject correcting the incorrect terms with proper in the text.
- Please kindly quote where shade (white/black) information is stated on the page, or any reference to dying pants/skirts, or making white pants/skirts. I don't know what page you are referring to, but the history section of this page also does not state this. It is quite unclear what that comment is related to (something, someone or from somewhere elsewhere perhaps). It is also not necessary to assume or implying that I didn’t read it, being open-minded and considering the technically correct in the terms used would be appreciated instead.
- I understand being pressed for time, though such things can be dealt with with an open mind regardless. Even asking a simple question "what would you change (suggest it here) so I can look later" would have been more helpful. What was stated landed more like: "since you can't be bothered to read whole pages, please start reading history notes".
- If I am treated with fairness and decency (without assumptions or unfairness) I will respond in kind. If this wiki is truly a community project, then community-oriented discussion should be the norm (including new/novice points of view). If it is not, that should be openly stated somewhere so as not to waste other's time as well as your own (understandable you have a lot on your plate). The fact remains, a person trying to dye for the first time cannot determine how to obtain the shade white for pants or skirts if they think in proper color terms as they have been taught and see no different on the wiki.
- Username_Removed (talk) 20:31, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
- I agree, and I fixed it. I did alter your suggestion to HSL sliders though, since that is the newer term used. This was bothering me as well (I'm an instructional designer). Muddiness is not well understood until having an example with greater clarity and structure. Information has a hierarchy, it needs to be chunked, sequenced and easily understandable both in-depth and at-a-glance. That's what information hierarchy does, building that is a process. Jaws (talk) 22:41, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
Supporting (outside) evidence
- White dye? "What do you use dye dresses white? The wiki only provides options for other colors."
- Is it possible to have a wedding dress? (User couldn't determine how to dye skirt white).
- I want to dye black (user couldn't determine how to get black after checking the wiki because there is some confusion around sewing machine vs dye pots).
- Dying pants (forum post helpfully explains how to interact with the hue, saturation and brightness sliders not mentioned or explained on this page).
- Dying pants (pants and skirts are often misunderstood for the reasons mentioned).
- Is there any way to dye your clothes black? (again confusion about dye pots vs sewing machine for dyeing).
- Can you dye clothes black or white? (users telling other users how to do the one of each color thing, that isn't clear here).
- How do I dye a skirt white? (illustrates again that some items are non-obvious and that clarification is needed around skirts/pants).
- Dying clothes black or white? (user "can't seem to find how to make a white skirt").
- Wedding dress (video comments confirm other users could not determine how to make a white skirt).
I'm reasonably certain there's more posts like this, I stopped looking after the first page of Google search results. Username_Removed (talk) 23:33, 26 August 2021 (UTC)