Talk:Ginger Island

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Organization

I just consolidated Island West slightly - I moved info about the green duggy and the shipwreck into the beach section. Overall, I'm trying to decide if some of these topics warrant their own pages. For example, Gourmand - I'd love to make a page with a screenshot of his cave, as well as info about fishing in his pond, the Gourmand statue, and maybe quotes. That might not be enough for a full page; however, adding specifics like this to every one of the island sections here would make this page more unwieldly. In my head, the Island North section is what "good" looks like - brief details, but then links to main pages for areas/topics. Any thoughts? The two changes I've been specifically thinking about how to add are Gourmand and then more specifics about the Mushroom Cave (e.g. items and frequency). I'll probably sandbox some stuff to work through what might make sense, but wanted to see if anyone feels strongly one way or the other. Efarn (talk) 02:44, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

I agree that this article, being about a HUGE central topic, is best served by concise introductory remarks and tons of links to the wide variety of details subjects, small or large as those other subjects may be. I also agree that the Island North section is currently a good example of what that might look like. I am going to make a couple of edits to that section that I think would make it better, though. It currently contains a couple of lists of items (for Island Trader and Mountain Quarry). Both those subtopics already have their own articles, and I would suggest that the lists belong there, not here. Instead, I will substitute a short suggestive language that can lead the reader to click the related articles if they want more. This way, more details (even such as lists) may be made explicit elsewhere, and only once on the wiki. The governing thought here is to lead the reader to the details, but to keep those details from being replicated and needing multiple points of correction or update if maintenance proves necessary. Giles (talk) 19:51, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

I've now created separate pages for each main area of the island and moved the detailed information for each to those pages! I think everything could still probably use some work (eg. I'm not a fan of the recursive explanation of 'Island East/North/West is the Island East/North/West of Island South'), but this should be a good start. Polk (talk) 01:30, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello Polk! I'm afraid I have some bad news. One comment from a year and a half ago isn't enough to warrant such substantial changes to a page. Remember that the wiki exists in 12 languages, and changes in English affect the rest. So, I'm going to change the page back, and we can see if anyone has any further input on the subject. I'm really sorry, but remember to discuss first! Thank you very much for your efforts to make the wiki better! margotbean (talk) 05:07, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

It's all good! I'd been under the impression that this was enough discussion and that the lack of activity here was from a lack of initiative, at least partially because I remember working on this before it had so many other connections, and that at the time this seemed to be the case. Thank you for the explanation!

As far as input goes, I'd like to add some here, in case it generates any further discussion and interest: I think the current layout has too much for one page. I remember it was written in something of a rush, originally, as everyone added content as it was discovered. As far as comparable layouts (as in, to compare with how other locations in the game are handled on this wiki), the closest thing I can think of is like how The Mountain is laid out: the Railroad, Quarry, and even the Witch's Swamp all have their own pages. Dividing the different areas of the island into their own pages would mirror this, at least somewhat.

The best argument I can think of against this is that although the main areas of Ginger Island are large, distinct, and complex, they're all still united by being a part of Ginger Island, which was released in a single update long after the rest of the game already existed. Although it's complicated and has a lot of things going on, there aren't more than a handful of new characters, and there's only one that has a heart rating. There may even be an argument to be made that the whole island is thematically more of a dungeon, than anything? (We don't do separate pages for individual floors of a dungeon.) I'm not very clear on what the issues with the pages in other languages are, but another potential issue is that there may apparently be an issue with remodeling pages and reflecting these changes across languages. I'm assuming it's the difficulty of finding someone in each language who can help make the wording adjustments and cut-and-paste the sections to the new pages in coordination with this?

Personally, my vote is towards breaking things down into smaller pieces. There are readability and organization issues on this page as it is, and I think we could find a way to section off the highly detailed segments without losing information and while improving things overall. If there's an issue with trying to coordinate stuff in other languages, I don't know what the steps would be, but I'd like to learn more, and whether I might be able to help with it. What do the rest of you think?

(By the way, is there a resource where I could learn more about how much we should hold back in the future for changes while editing? When the 1.5 Update came out I was part of the efforts to build the initial groundwork for a few things, and I'm getting the sense that the landscape has since changed, and I'd like to know how to step to avoid this happening in the future. For example, is keeping the new additions under Transportation something that needs to be discussed beforehand, or can that kind of thing be added and then revised as needed later?) Polk (talk) 05:48, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi Polk! Thanks for your understanding! The problem with other languages is indeed the fact that I don't speak 12 languages, so cutting up a page and copy/pasting would be difficult. If an editor were interested in trying to do so (using google translate, for example), I wouldn't be opposed to such a big change, as long as the editor was willing to attempt the same changes x12. Some languages have not reorganized the page by section (so parts of the island are in a different order than in English), making the task even more difficult. In general, online translators are absolutely worthless for Japanese, Korean, and Chinese, and all but worthless for Hungarian, Russian, and Turkish. They do a bit better with the other languages.

As for the changes to the "Transportation" section, I think info about how to first get to the island should be at the top of the page, and the Parrot Express should be lower down. Adding info about the Island Obelisk is fine, but it doesn't fit in a section about the Parrot Express, so perhaps there could be a section created at the top of the page about transportation to and from the island. These changes aren't drastic enough to warrant lengthy discussion, unlike breaking the page up into several subpages. (Although discussion is never a bad thing!) I hope this helps! margotbean (talk) 16:43, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

This makes sense, yeah! If it were enough to only worry about a few of the languages, I could probably get through the latin-based ones (and maybe a couple of others), but the full set of 12 (especially those six you called out) would be beyond that range, yeah. I suspect the answer is no, or it would have come up earlier, but just in case: would there be anywhere on this site where I could look for translators who are available for those languages?

Re Transportation: That's a good point, yeah, and I'd been wondering if entry/exiting-island transportation would fall under a different umbrella than within-the-island-itself transportation. I'll kick around ideas for this, and also look around at what the other location pages, have, since trying to standardize the information each page gives is a personal goal of mine, and if it's not a commonly given tidbit then that would make it less of a priority.

Thank you again for all your help, btw! Polk (talk) 04:42, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

You're welcome, and thank you for your good ideas and your understanding about the whole situation!!

There's no one who's very active in the other languages at the moment. There was a surge during summer, but that's ended. So, if I could point you to someone, I surely would! But there's no one right now, I'm sorry to say. I'm always looking for them, and trying to keep them interested in translating and updating pages. It's an uphill struggle. I've tried soliciting translators on discord, but they are mostly modders, and translating is infinitely more tedious than writing the code for a mod. I can't seem to coerce them into it, not for lack of trying!

Your ideas about the transportation section seem quite sound; I trust your thought process. If there's anything more I can do, please don't hesitate to ask! margotbean (talk) 07:41, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Farm Shipwreck

The page currently says, "It is unclear if this shipwreck is related to Leo, Birdie, or the pirates in the Pirate's Cove." However, if you pay attention to Birdie when she's introducing herself, she mentions the wreck and explains that her husband was its captain. Vaidurya (talk) 23:44, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Right you are, I've updated the page. Birdie's dialog can be found in the data file Locations.xnb, under the entry for IslandSecret_Event_BirdieIntro, so I'm going to delete the images you uploaded as proof. Thanks for pointing this out! Much appreciated, margotbean (talk) 16:29, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Gem Birds

I am assuming that the location of the Gem Bird that appears each rainy day is randomized for that specific day, something like the weather. My first three rainy days in this game yielded three different locations, but subsequent rainy days have yielded only repeats, not the fourth Gem Bird. Please let me know if I am wrong about randomization. If not, I will put some text into the article to make this clear. There is no mention at the moment. Thanks. Giles (talk) 17:49, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

An excellent question, I don't know the answer. In all my playthroughs, I've always gone straight to the area where I needed the gem, and found the bird. Or else, I forgot about the puzzle entirely, and have no memory of what happened (was there a duplicate bird, or no bird?) If you have save files with an incomplete puzzle, in-game testing might give the answer more quickly than a code dive. margotbean (talk) 18:08, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. My current active game does have an incomplete puzzle. At the fourth bird, I entered the fourth area, much as you do, and found the bird there, but I abandoned that play mid-day, no save. (It happens. I generally am unable to continue play beyond one game day at a time. So, forget about trains in SV, too.) I don't remember whether, in my replayed game day, I went to Ginger Island or not. But the next rainy game day, the same one or another, the bird was not in the one remaining area I needed. Intrigued, I searched and found it in the first area I had ever found a bird, and there it was. Since then, successive rainy days have produced birds that have followed the same succession of locations I first encountered! (Isn't that rather a coincidence? Or is it?) I have yet to reach the fourth day since I missed. Watch this space for developments. I rather think I'll need to replay from various saved days in order to sort out the details. I didn't even know there were questions when I took my first pass, and haven't remembered other details that might pertain. I need to explore what's relevant and what's not also. Giles (talk) 17:09, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

The location of Gem Birds should be random. Here are parts of relating codes:

private static IEnumerator<int> _newDayAfterFade()
{
	......
	if (IsMasterGame && (bool)netWorldState.Value.GetWeatherForLocation(GameLocation.LocationContext.Island).isRaining)
	{
		Vector2 tile_location = new Vector2(0f, 0f);
		IslandLocation island_location = null;
		List<int> order = new List<int>();
		for (int i = 0; i < 4; i++)
		{
			order.Add(i);
		}
		Utility.Shuffle(new Random((int)uniqueIDForThisGame), order);
		switch (order[currentGemBirdIndex])
		{
		case 0:
			island_location = getLocationFromName("IslandSouth") as IslandLocation;
			tile_location = new Vector2(10f, 30f);
			break;
		case 1:
			island_location = getLocationFromName("IslandNorth") as IslandLocation;
			tile_location = new Vector2(56f, 56f);
			break;
		case 2:
			island_location = getLocationFromName("Islandwest") as IslandLocation;
			tile_location = new Vector2(53f, 51f);
			break;
		case 3:
			island_location = getLocationFromName("IslandEast") as IslandLocation;
			tile_location = new Vector2(21f, 35f);
			break;
		}
		currentGemBirdIndex = (currentGemBirdIndex + 1) % 4;
		if (island_location != null)
		{
			island_location.locationGemBird.Value = new IslandGemBird(tile_location, IslandGemBird.GetBirdTypeForLocation(island_location.Name));
		}
	}
	......
}

"uniqueIDForThisGame" changes each time when you return to the title (You can consider it as a random seed). Initial value of currentGemBirdIndex is 0. In every rainy day, the game selects a random int from [0,1,2,3] ("Utility.Shuffle" changes 2 random numbers' order, repeating 4 times). Each number matches one location. So the Gem Birds's location is random. What you came across looks like to be an coincidence. --Horizon98 (Discussion) 18:04, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Horizon, but I expect there is something amiss with your code interpretation. There's too much additional coincidence here for it to be otherwise.

First, re "uniqueIDForThisGame": it's a seed, but not a random seed. It's unique for your game. Its value does not change each time you "return to the title" (do you mean "load the game from the save file, from the game title display"?). This ID was generated once when your game was initiated (when you pressed "NEW" at the game title). On PC at least, that number is attached to the name of game's save file, as well as the file's folder. As far as each individual game is concerned, it is a constant, which can be found in every save file.

Note also that this entire code segment begins with a line that already knows what the weather is today. Whatever randomness produced that weather, it was done the previous game day, because that weather was saved in the most recent save file and was used the previous day in the TV's weather forecast.

Yes, the bird shuffle itself is still random, but we still don't know if "order", the shuffle list, is saved somewhere. Every indicator I have seen indicates that it has. And, after all, weather is randomly generated, but only once per day. Once generated it is fixed. That is what I see from the shuffle order.

In fact, I now see fixed values that persist for the game. My current run has now encountered the fourth bird, completing the set. In fact, this is the second time I have gone through the set of four in this game. I just didn't actually go to Ginger Island the first time when the fourth bird appeared. (I have saved every day's files since the start of this game into an independent folder.) Upon restarting the fourth rainy day since unlocking Ginger Island, the fourth bird showed up. The following day showed that I had not saved the gem at the shrine. I certainly would have if I had gone to Ginger Island at all (I would not have forgotten), since the bird was on Island South, near the docks, an inevitable reminder.

Every time I have reloaded a single game day from my saved files, the same bird appears. It has never failed, and there are too many repeats for there to be a credible argument that another random shuffle is done after loading. "Order" must be saved somewhere, somehow.

It is even more fixed than that. The second run through a set of four birds was identical in order to the first run: same sequence by the same bird type yielding the same gem. A new bird or a new starting point was not chosen for each sequence of four. Once started, the remaining birds' sequence was not shuffled again either.

It is my conjecture, based on game behavior, that the gem bird shuffle is done for each individual game, once for all time, at the first time the player visits Ginger Island on a rainy day. From that time on, the same sequence of four repeats forever on rainy days. If you miss one rainy day, you can catch the missed bird four rainy days later and complete the shrine that way. I am going to add something about this to the article. Giles (talk) 03:04, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Article edit made. I ran a few more tests, hoping I could get the game to do something different. Even when I ran the file from two days before the first rainy day (and the weather changed so it ended up being three days before rain), the resulting bird was the same one in the same location. Not impossible odds, but every type of run is proving to give the same arrangement. In my game, everything begins with a ruby-gem bird in Island North. I assume not everyone experiences that! (?) Giles (talk) 07:38, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Giles! Sorry for the incorrect interpretation. I tried to look into the codes again and tested in the game. Also, maybe there are still some mistakes. As you said, the "uniqueIDForThisGame" is unique for the save file. I got it wrong because that I took the name of the function for granted. The function to generate the "uniqueIDForThisGame" which calculated by "current UTC time - (2012, 6, 22)" is called "CleanupReturningToTitle" and executed when the variable "exitToTitle" is true. However, I didn't realized that the game saves the "uniqueIDForThisGame" as you said and then loaded it when you load the game. Therefore, the "uniqueIDForThisGame" doesn't change in the same game save.

Apart from "uniqueIDForThisGame", the game also saves "currentGemBirdIndex" in the save file and can loaded it from the file. The point is that the game executes the codes that I posted once in each rainy day. But the function Utility.Shuffle ouputs the same list when the seed "uniqueIDForThisGame" and imported list keep same. And the "currentGemBirdIndex" = ("currentGemBirdIndex" +1)%4 which means the index circulated in [0,1,2,3].

Therefore, the location order doesn't change in the same save, and the gem's location is recurrent in each rainy day. Sorry for the wrong interpretation again. You can add extra information to the article if you want. Relating references: StardewValley.Game1::_newDayAfterFade, StardewValley.Utility::Shuffle. Thanks! --Horizon98 (Discussion) 07:46, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for the confirmation! "Order" is of course a local variable within the code you posted, but its results were placed in the index, whose scope I could not see. The utility shuffle was something of a mystery, and what you describe is a surprise to me, as its name would indicate some generic function, and its actual function is quite specialized. Not the first time I've encountered such things in code though. In fact, engineers are notorious for creating misleading names in code, and through decades of time that basic tendency has never diminished. So now I'm thoroughly comfortable with the fact (I would now declare it a true fact, not just a conclusion) that generation of the list and index is "once for all time" within any given created game, with appropriate pointers into it saved in the save file. And that makes moot (for us) the question of when it is actually generated. The program creates it early enough that the first time we meet its effects, it is already in place, and thereafter it is always the same. Unless we back up our play far enough (what is "enough"?) to a manually-saved earlier day/file, it must be the same. The file design doesn't go back farther than one day (for game restoration purposes in case of file loss), so anything like what I do is outside of Ape's direct intentions. And more than what I've done here seems to me to have no point anyway. We're on entirely firm ground. Giles (talk) 16:35, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Warning: Spoilers

All 1.5 content is currently marked with "Warning: Spoilers" {{Spoiler}} banners. 1.5 was released close to a year ago; I'd hardly still consider the documentation of its contents as spoilers. Can we start removing these banners? --Odg (talk) 22:50, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

1.5 has not been released on mobile yet. If you read the banner, it warns mobile players to use caution or avoid reading the article/section. margotbean (talk) 23:41, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, what's up with that? Thorninjag (talk) 22:42, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

In what way do you mean? margotbean (talk) 04:48, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Fish vs Fishing

Margotbean, I just think I ought to opine in objection to your latest change. Please look again at the sentence construction as you restored it: "Fish ... are unaffected ... ." Does that not seem strange to you? It's not the fish who are unaffected by season, it's the fishing on Ginger Island that's unaffected! I think the previous wording expressed this better. But in any case, the sentence needs to be clear that fishing on Ginger Island is its topic. It's not now, and that's a backward step, so I hate to leave the article there. I hate warring and I know you'll get your way, so I'm not going to do more. But you can still re-examine your change and make it better. Make sure you say just what is unaffected. Fish aren't it. Giles (talk) 20:34, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

I didn't really like either one, so I tried a third wording. I'm also not going to edit-war this. Zendowolf (talk) 22:31, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

I'm happy with it as it is now. If there's no objections, we can leave it alone. :) margotbean (talk) 15:35, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Looks good to me too. Thanks Zendowolf, and Margotbean! Giles (talk) 17:18, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Plantable Space

The page states that there are 879 tiles of plantable space on Island West. However, this includes the 33 tiles above Qi's Walnut Room, which are inaccessible without using chairs to leave the map. While they are technically plantable tiles, I don't think it makes sense to include them.

There are a total of 846 tiles which are accessible in normal gameplay. 757 on the main farmland, 55 on the big chunk of land across the river, 31 between the patches around the lake, and 3 on a small patch of land by the Parrot Express.

I thought this probably warranted an edit, but I'm not sure because while the information is misleading, it is technically correct. Leninheads (talk) 07:46, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Agreed, it's a good edit imo. Thanks, margotbean (talk) 19:34, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

This is great information. I would like to find a way to include all of the details somewhere. Zendowolf (talk) 01:24, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Done. The page is now a little longer, but I was thinking the info belonged on the page as well. Cheers, margotbean (talk) 03:07, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

"Using chairs to leave the map?" Never heard of it, though I've heard of other references to going through cliffs or the like. Don't know how any of those work. Are these types of behavior worth mention in tips, or are they just considered beyond the scope of the Wiki because they're not "normal" game play? Giles (talk) 17:09, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

I think it's worth mentioning on pages where it can significantly affect the expected course of the game (e.g., The Secret Woods). It's also probably worth mentioning as a "Glitch" on the Furniture page... I will try to write it up with some degree of clarity. margotbean (talk) 19:07, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Here's a clip that shows how to access the area, if it helps: https://youtu.be/HZ1Lda95Lc8 Leninheads (talk) 19:21, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it was changed in an update since February of 2022, but there are 874 plantable tiles accessible through normal gameplay, not 846. 770 on the main farm, 55 across the river, 42 around the pond, 5 by the parrot Express, and two in spots where you find golden walnuts HumanDude (talk) 10:41, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Jellyfish only in Winter

Since this wiki used to say Jellyfish appear in the water at night and without rain was not correct. Each time we play, the only time we see them is in Winter and without rain. Which made us make this change. 9000 (talk) 8:40, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Yep, I checked the game code when you made the change, and found that you were correct. Good job, thank you! margotbean (talk) 14:41, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Oh cool, I've never noticed these! Where on the Island do they appear? Is it Island South, or is it multiple areas? Polk (talk) 01:30, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Villagers getting stuck

Since of lads at the time that when the Villagers return to Stardew Valley from the Island Beach Resort, there is a bug where a Villager or two will be frozen and cannot move. Here is an example: We found Mayor Lewis stuck at the top left of the map looking into a cliff next to the Warp Totem facing east. Is this a bug? Feel free to check the game code. 9000 (talk) 8:06, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

That sounds like a bug, you should report it on the forums. margotbean (talk) 17:29, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

tbh weird scheduling issues are just...kinda a thing, I guess. I'm not surprised. Atravita (talk) 14:20, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

I've been playing for months, and I can't find ginger island

I've been playing since February, Upgraded my tools to the max, made my farm look cool, and willy hasn't sent the letter about the boat once. Please help. Thorninjag (talk) 22:42, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

If you're playing on a mobile device, you're playing v1.4, which doesn't include Ginger Island. You can't get 1.5 content until the mobile release of v1.5. ConcernedApe has tweeted that he expects it to happen by the end of this year. margotbean (talk) 04:48, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Bugs

While fishing on ginger Island, it hit 2am and I didn't fall asleep. I don't know if this is a overall bug, or if it is a specifically for ginger island bug. Can someone please tell me if they have also experienced this. Thank you Shhzjska (talk) 00:33, 22 November 2022 (UTC)