User talk:Charly

This is Charly's talk page, where you can send messages and comments to Charly.
Sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text below old text.	Be polite. Assume good faith. Don't delete discussions.

Deconstructor

Hey Charly, please forgive me for not communicating with you about the changes before this, it's an unusually busy day for me. I just wanted to say the new table looks FABULOUS, so good job, very well done! Please feel free to continue to tweak it if you wish, I just wanted to say thank you. margotbean (talk) 17:42, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi Margotbean! Hahaha, that's okay, busy days happen (even if I was a bit surprised of your edits at first), and thanks, that's very kind of you! :-D -- Charly (talk) 17:58, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Template Changes

Hello Charly! I'm messaging to let you know that template changes have to be discussed before being implemented. The reason is that templates are the same in all 12 languages, so changes to one require cascading changes to the other 11.

Having said that, your changes to Template:Weather inline seem fine, and you did a good job of cropping the image so that it's identifiable even when so tiny. So, I don't want you to feel like the changes were a bad thing.

Another question I have is where will it be used? Currently the weather inline template is used for fish and the Mermaid's Pendant, that's it. It already contains unused icons (fall wind, storm, and snow), so I wonder where you were thinking it might be used?

I'm going to revert the template changes (I'm sorry!) pending your reply. If we decide it's going to be used somewhere, the changes can be un-reverted easily, and one or both of us can update the other 11 languages. Thank you, margotbean (talk) 15:43, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Hello Margotbean! Thank for your message. Oh sorry I wasn't aware of this, even if I already wondered about cross-languages coherence.

I am working on the Soundtrack page, which has a "Weather" column, so I was planning to use weather inline templates here, that's why I added the Festival's one (windy and snowy will be used too – I'm not planning to use a special icon for the wedding tho, just redirect to the weather page).

Since we are talking about that: I uploaded the 13x13 version, derived directly from the animated .gif, and then a custom 16x16 version, like you did for the other weather template icons. But the second version of the image looks exactly the same as the first one, and even if on the file page

it's written 16x16, if I download the picture on my computer, it's a 13x13 picture. Any idea about this oddity? Maybe a bug? Should I try to re-upload?

-- Charly (talk) 16:10, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Ah, yes, unfortunately there is a delay in image updating, from 2-5 hours. It happens on the server side, so purging the page and clearing browser cache have no effect. In about 5 hours (or less?), you will see the 16x16 version that you should be seeing now. Unfortunately this is not something we can fix (I've asked. Repeatedly.)

Since the template changes were pretty simple, I'm going to reinstate them, and I can carry out the changes in the other languages. You can update Soundtrack now, or wait for the image to update, I don't think 3 pixels is going to significantly affect the look of it when it's finished. Good luck! Let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks, margotbean (talk) 16:22, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Okay, nice! I see, thanks for the info and thanks also for the template modification! I make changes to other things on the same page and perform a few in-game checks so I will publish the whole thing when I finish :-)

-- Charly (talk) 16:32, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Fish Pond

Hi again Charly! Regarding the changes to the Fish Pond page, I appreciate your comment that you're a visual person, and there may be some benefit to adding the name template to the page. However, I've reverted this same change 2x in the past, and until all languages have the page, and to keep all languages consistent, I've reverted the addition of the name template to the large tables on the page. I apologize for any inconvenience! I appreciate your understanding, margotbean (talk) 20:16, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Hi Margotbean! I'm glad you bring up the subject, otherwise I would have open up the topic myself. So, let's break down the argument:

Name Template Legitimacy

So it's the fourth time a change adding the icons is implemented and then reverted:

I also note that it has been implemented in the past in other-language wikis:

Each time, you were the one making the reversion (for the sake of consistency I presume... ?). I see those numerous changes as a hint indicating that the use of name template would be much welcome.

On the substance, I would say:

Using the name template on the "Fish" columns (both table) seems to me uncontroversial
Using the name template on the "Item(s) produced" column (second/produce table) seems to me a nice addition without downsides
Using the name template on the "Item(s) required" column (first/quests table) could possibly be discussed, as there are sometimes multiple items per line (but has been implemented in 4 of the 8 past versions I just listed)

Cross-Language Consistency

If the issue is cross-language consistency (which could be discussed as it is not something related to page/template/category/section but let's say ok), I see no objection to take the change implementation in charge in the 9 other languages. I look that up and I feel it would not be too much work for me.

Quests Table

The "Normal Spawn Frequency" column is a language-specific string (the unit (i.e., days) could be stated in the column title instead but let's keep it that way), and in the "Item(s) Required" column, the "or" translation is also language-specific. I also note the Italian version is not translated at all, and the Chinese version is using in the "Item(s) Required" column the classifier 个 (and 条 for Sardine; I don't know why this classifier is not used for other fish in the table, I suspect it is just an incoherence that should be removed). Nothing that requires internal language understanding tho.

Produce Table

Some other languages (Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese, Russian, Chinese) didn't catch with the table format change made the 31 October 2020 by Nebulous Maestress, which remove one column, added one, moved another one.

This could be the occasion to update them, even more easily that there are just numbers (except for columns titles; and maybe a sentence explaining the new column as for the English and Japanese version, sentence not really here on the Korean and German ones; I could not translate myself perfectly for those).

"All Languages Having the Page" argument

I don't get this argument. The page doesn't exist in Hungarian nor in Turkish right now. And so? Should all other languages be frozen because of this? How does this help anyone? What difference does this make? If the page get translated some day, the better the reference page, the better the translation, isn't it? For instance Furniture or Traveling Cart do not exist in Hugarian nor in Turkish right now (neither in Spanish for the later). So we are not allowed to modify any of those pages because of that? This does not make any sense to me.

Awaiting answers to take further actions, cheers!

-- Charly (talk) 23:27, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Well, I appreciate the research you did in formulating your response.

The one thing you haven't taken into account is sorting -- when the name template is used, the names are automatically translated, but the table sorts based on the English name. So, while updating the pages is on my "to do" list, even after the updates, the pages should really remain text-only, for that reason. Yes, the sorting isn't perfect in cells that have more than one item, but breaking it altogether is not something I want to happen. Kindest regards, margotbean (talk) 23:51, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Ok so it would require some more work but it's feasible using e.g., | data-sort-value="Fischlaich" | {{name|Roe}} -- Charly (talk) 00:02, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Follow up on the Fish Pond talk page -- Charly (talk) 07:31, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Skull Cavern

One small change I would request: in the equation, change "Player Luck" to "Luck Buffs". Since Luck skill is unimplemented, the value reduces to simply luck buffs, and the term "Player Luck" is ambiguous. Otherwise, I think the new edit is fine, it fixes the problems with the previous edit.

Thanks very much! margotbean (talk) 23:15, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Alright, I did hesitate between the two, and thought maybe "Player Luck" would sound better in the equation, but you are right indeed. Thanks also!

-- Charly (talk) 23:39, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Tree Icons

On the Tapper and Heavy Tapper pages, the tree icons are too big, please please remove them! (Also, thank you for fixing my blunder with processing times!) margotbean (talk) 19:01, 19 November 2021 (UTC)