Changes

:All that info is already on the page, players simply need to read it.  A wiki can do only so much for those who don't wish to "read every word".  The history section is also valuable for those who don't wish to read all that much. [[User:Margotbean|margotbean]] ([[User talk:Margotbean|talk]]) 14:31, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

:All that info is already on the page, players simply need to read it.  A wiki can do only so much for those who don't wish to "read every word".  The history section is also valuable for those who don't wish to read all that much. [[User:Margotbean|margotbean]] ([[User talk:Margotbean|talk]]) 14:31, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

::Respecfully I did "simply read" the page, I'm not one of the proposed people who "don't wish to read every word" (please don't make the assumption), white and black are '''shades, not colors''' the article statements you mention refer only to ''colors''. White '''is the literal ''absence'' of color''', meaning several statements on the page are incorrect, not my reading of it. The words "pants" or "skirts" appear nowhere, nor is it mentioned anywhere that putting ''one of each color item in each dye pot creates colors '''and shades such as black or white'''''--of which white, is not normally dyeable '''at all''' (hence why unintuitive/strange). Pants and skirts are also treated differently that other articles at the sewing machine for dying (they cannot begin with white). Logically white being inexplicably dyeable thus warrants the elaboration requested. It also says: "a menu will pop up with '''color''' sliders (similar to the character creation menu) that allow you to choose any '''color'''", again black and white and black (or grey) are not colors. Also, more than just ''color'' sliders appear, hue/saturation/brightness sliders appear to achieve '''shades, different hues ''and'' colors''' in a mixer format. Anyone with a novice understanding of color, paint, dying, graphics or web colors (or took an art class on high school) may likely assume the same of analog-represented, limited, dye '''color''' pots (that are actual colors), without proper mention of what is '''really''' contained therein. Even stating HSB (Hue Saturation Lightness) color mixer sliders similar to that in programs appear would be much more clear. People with even high school art classes don't naturally think to try mixing or dying '''an absence of color''' which is likely why there are posts asking about it elsewhere. It also wrongly states below the ''Dye Strength'' section first table: "Shown below is an expandable table of all items that can be used to dye '''clothing''' at the sewing machine," and it lists white items, except the white items ''cannot'' be used for pants or skirts at the sewing machine '''at all''' (as far as I could tell since I tried after my friends reported trying and failing, so this is incorrect or rather incomplete and thus ''misleading''. It did lead people to try and fail--hence misleading, which is avoidable with a proper description of what is to be found there and how it is used.

::Respecfully I did "simply read" the page, I'm not one of the proposed people who "don't wish to read every word" (please don't make the assumption), white and black are '''shades, not colors''' the article statements you mention refer only to ''colors''. White '''is the literal ''absence'' of color''', meaning several statements on the page are incorrect, not my reading of it. The words "pants" or "skirts" appear nowhere, nor is it mentioned that putting ''one of each color item in each dye pot creates ''colors'' '''and shades such as black or white'''''--white being not dyeable '''at all''' (warranting elaboration). It also says: "a menu will pop up with '''color''' sliders (similar to the character creation menu) that allow you to choose any '''color'''", again black/white/grey are not colors. Also, more than just ''color'' sliders appear, hue/saturation/brightness sliders appear. Anyone with a novice understanding of color, paint, dying, graphics or web colors (or took an art class on high school even) may assume the same of analog-represented, dye pots colors), without proper mention of what is '''really''' contained therein. Even stating digital HSB (Hue Saturation Lightness) color/shade sliders appear would be much more clear. People with knowledge of color don't naturally think to try mixing or dying '''an absence of color''' using color, which is likely why there are posts asking about it elsewhere. It also wrongly states below the ''Dye Strength'' section first table: "Shown below is an expandable table of all items that can be used to dye '''clothing''' at the sewing machine," and it lists white items, except that white items ''cannot'' be used for pants or skirts at the sewing machine (an unmentioned exception?). All of this could be prevented by including an image of the sliders, even if reject correcting the proper terms in the text.

::Please kindly quote where the above listed information is '''correctly''' stated on the page. I don't know what page you are referring to, but the history section of this page also does not state this so it is quite unclear what that comment is even related to (something or someone else from elsewhere perhaps). It is also not necessary to be condescend by assuming or implying that I didn’t read it, being open-minded and technically correct would be appreciated instead.  

::Please kindly quote where shade information is stated on the page, or any reference to dying pants/skirts, or making white pants/skirts. I don't know what page you are referring to, but the history section of this page also does not state this. It is quite unclear what that comment is related to (something, someone or from somewhere elsewhere perhaps). It is also not necessary to assume or implying that I didn’t read it, being open-minded and technically correct in the terms used would be appreciated instead.  

::I understand being pressed for time, though I such things can still dealt with with an open mind and some flexibility. Asking a question rather than making an uncharitable assumption, such as: "can you elaborate here on what you would change so I can look later?" Even if you changed nothing it would be received better what amounts to: "since you couldn't be bothered to read, please start reading history notes" (that is unrelated, no idea why it was pulled in).

::I understand being pressed for time, though such things can be dealt with with an open mind regardless. Even asking a simple question "what would you change (suggest it here) so I can look later" would have been more helpful. What was stated landed more like: "since you can't be bothered to read whole pages, please start reading history notes".

::If I am treated with fairness and decency (without uncharitable assumptions or unfairness) I will respond in kind. Otherwise I will continue to defend respectfully using logic and observation wherever warranted. If this wiki is truly a ''community'' project, then community-oriented discussion should be the norm. If it is not, logically that should be openly stated somewhere so as not to waste other's time as well as your own.

::If I am treated with fairness and decency (without assumptions or unfairness) I will respond in kind. If this wiki is truly a ''community'' project, then community-oriented discussion should be the norm. If it is not, that should be openly stated somewhere so as not to waste other's time as well as your own (understandable you have a lot on your plate).

::[[User:CrystalFlower|CrystalFlower]] ([[User talk:CrystalFlower|talk]]) 20:31, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

::[[User:CrystalFlower|CrystalFlower]] ([[User talk:CrystalFlower|talk]]) 20:31, 19 July 2021 (UTC)