User talk:Margotbean

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Change to Console Version History

Hi! I changed Console Version History to break out of the table. The previous format was confusing; versions often didn't align, PS Vita was off on its own, releases were listed in conflicting orders (major releases were listed latest -> oldest, but minor releases were oldest -> latest), etc. It was also hard to link to a release, and didn't have much benefit since each console often has different versions & release notes anyway. If the new format looks fine, I'll make the change to the other wikis too. —Pathoschild (talk) 16:28, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

I'm personally not really a fan of this formatting. It's harder to read changes and splitting it this way means a bunch of information is going to be repeated at least three times on the same page. What do you think Margot? Katzeus (talk) 16:52, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
Well... Pathos actually promised to make the formatting changes to the Console Version History page way back when he changed the Version History page, so I've been expecting this. I've been staring at both pages side-by-side for about 20 minutes now, and I honestly like and dislike aspects of both.
Bottom line, I think we should keep the new format. We can transclude within the page, if v1.3 is going to be the exact same text for all 3 consoles. As it is now, there are only 2 sections duplicated, and it makes more sense to me for each console to have its own section, rather than one table cell with 3 different console changes listed in it. The Switch needed its own section a long time ago, imo.
As for readability, we could put each console into its own table, adding a white background. (Then it wouldn't match the Version History or Mobile Version History pages, but I could live with that.)
A couple of tweaks -- the logos are different sizes, and it looks weird.
My thoughts. --margotbean (talk) 17:47, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
P.S. No pun intended, we've broken the link to the PS Vita version in Template:MainLinks now. margotbean (talk) 18:03, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
I tweaked the logos so their heights are consistent (though their widths vary); how does that look? MainLinks points to the top of Console Version History for the other consoles, so those could all be updated to link to their section too. —Pathoschild (talk) 18:13, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
I think you may just want to eyeball the logo height to match the line height, they still look a little off. It shouldn't change once set, so it doesn't really need to be consistent imo.
But fair points on the format changes, I'm not going to strongly defend the table. The layout worked much better when it was just two consoles on the same version vs the jumble it'd became now.
I've updated the mainlinks template, that'll help direct better for this new setup.- Katzeus (talk) 18:39, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
I agree, the logos need to look good to the human eye. Forget about matching sizes in the code.
I think it should say "Nintendo Switch", even if it doesn't say "Microsoft Xbox" or "Sony Playstation". Translators are going to delete that span, and I'll forever be putting it back. Seriously. "Switch" is a more generic term than Xbox or PS4 as well, so to me that justifies it being "not like the others". margotbean (talk) 18:52, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
The span isn't needed in other languages though, since that's only to avoid breaking links from the official announcements. Also, here's an attempt to align the logos visually (the PS4/Vita logos look huge if you align the line heights):
PS4 logo.png PS Vita logo.png Nintendo Switch Logo.png Xbox One Logo.png
Pathoschild (talk) 19:19, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
I made the Switch logo 2px bigger, and now the line-heights are a bit off (the bottom gray border is just about touching the Xbox and Switch images, while the other two have space.) I think I'm about done messing with it now, it's not going to get any better, and it's such nit-picking at this point. Overall, I think it looks good!  :D If you want to tackle the other languages, be my guest. I'm not gonna change template:MainLinks in the other languages until the pages are changed, so whenever/whatever you want to do is fine. margotbean (talk) 19:45, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
I'll hold off a bit in case Katzeus has other feedback, but I'll update the other languages later today. —Pathoschild (talk) 20:37, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
No other feedback here - looks good! I'll update the links for the MainLink templates on each site once you've done your work - Katzeus (talk) 21:22, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
Done! All wikis are migrated to the new format. —Pathoschild (talk) 00:12, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
Cool - MainLinks are all updated - Katzeus (talk) 14:45, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Removing heart event videos?

Hi again! You removed some heart event video links (see example diff), but those can be useful when looking up what happens in an event (e.g. getting the specific dialogue text for modding); why remove them? —Pathoschild (talk) 21:27, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Because they're going to cause all kinds of trouble for translators, they're all in English only, and anyone doing a google search can find a plethora of videos of all heart events (and more). margotbean (talk) 21:29, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Character Quotes - Manual of Style?

Margot.

You seemed like the right person to come to after covering my observation re Pig 5 Heart Sell Price over at animals. I've noticed that there seems to be a lack of consistent styling of character quotes across different characters (take a look at how they're done for Haley's article, then how they're done for Sebastian's article and you should see it). A quick search across the wiki hasn't turned up anything for a 'Manual of Style' document either, so while 'be Bold' is true, there's also 'But not reckless', and approaching stuff without the info behind it, is kinda reckless IMO. Anyway, is there a wiki-wide consensus on how quotes for characters should be handled? Also, if there's a page on SDVWiki detailing Manual of Style or anything like that, I'd appreciate being linked to it.

Best regards! Matticusmadness (talk) 03:24, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Tomato

Doing what again? The change does not introduce any argument about which category a tomato falls in. It simply removes "ambiguity". The *status* is what is highlighted in Demetrius's event. And it's not an ambiguity that they talk about. I think Katzeus recommended that the issue be avoided. The word ambiguity brings the issue up. Leaving it out lets it rest. Reconsider please. Butterbur (talk) 05:35, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Signatures Edits needed?

Hi Margot. Thought I'd better run this by you before it risks becoming a bigger issue as my edit count increases

I noticed you tweaked my signature in your reply at talk:Marriage to remove the 'color' and 'sup style' modifications to the signature. Is there anything in the SDV Wiki Rules against signatures having different colours in them? I couldn't see anything about it in Help:Editing and it's never done me any trouble on Wikipedia or on Wikias (now 'fandom' s), plus I tweaked the 'color' when I modified the signature in 'preferences' so it could be read on SDVWiki's blue and green 'house style', so it's a little confusing as to why your edit to the signature felt warranted. The markup is, as you might have guessed, in my standard version of my signature (set in 'Preferences') now so if you want the 'color' and 'sup style' wiped out, let me know and I'll figure something else out for it.

After all, if it's breaking a rule, least I can do is fix things so it's not breaking said rule anymore, right? Heh... All the best! MM (Communications) (Crops) 02:37, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

I'd just like to leave the comment that the color modification makes the signature hard to read against certain standard backgrounds, at least on my machine. Butterbur (talk) 07:16, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Welcome Template

Hello, I'm Dove, or GamerGirl. I have created a welcome template page for your wiki, seems that it is obvious that every wiki needs a welcome template, as it is easy to use the template to welcome a new user rather than typing it out. Hope it helps! GamerGirl (talk) 15:22, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

'Journey Of The Prairie King' in JA

Hi! We need to move the page ja:アドベンチャー・オブ・Prairie King to correct translated name ja:アドベンチャー・オブ・プレーリーキング. Could you do it? FlameArche (talk) 19:44, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi FlameArche! I've responded on your talk page on the Japanese wiki. Cheers! margotbean (talk) 20:30, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Profile editing

Heyyy do you know how to edit your profiles description or do you have to be a high rank to do that? Ultrabobt (talk) 21:22, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

The Farmer in the Dell

It's ok. It's trivia after all. I thought it was cute and in keeping with the spirit of the game. But it's certainly not necessary. Butterbur (talk) 05:23, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

WP:REVDEL?

Hi Margot.

Do you have WP:REVDEL permissions? I could be wrong, but this edit feels to me like it could do with its edit summary being cut from Public View due to the email address in it.

Hope you're doing well. :) MM (Communications) (Crops) 21:07, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Can you contact with me

Instagram

Keeping version history up to date on the main page

The main page of the wiki hasn't been updated since March 14th and the mobile version numbers are falling behind. I thought you might have permissions for that page and could update it to reflect the current versions. Overlord Odin (talk) 03:48, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

It seems our dear Admin has taken care of this already. My bad, I could have updated it sooner... Thanks for shooting me a message, next time I'll get to it quicker! margotbean (talk) 17:48, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Xbox transfer files to PC

Is it possible to hook up a pc or laptop to an Xbox and transfer your Stardew Valley save files? Or even without hooking anything up, would it be possible to share it via lan or something? Ultrabobt (talk) 17:30, 2 April 2019 (BST)

Deletion of Modding:Projects

Hi! You deleted 'Modding:Projects/Stardew Valley Expanded' and the related pages without discussion. Stardew Valley Expanded is a large mod which is very popular, and is currently overwhelming both the author's ability to support players and the community support channels. That's why we're working with the mod author to set up a community-maintained page in the new 'Modding:Projects' section. Could you explain why a 'Modding:Projects' section should be disallowed on the wiki? —Pathoschild (talk) 18:34, 14 April 2019 (BST)

The wiki isn't for FAQs about a particular mod. As I said in the comments to the edits, those belong on the forums or on nexus. The wiki isn't the place for forum overflow. margotbean (talk) 18:51, 14 April 2019 (BST)
The modding namespace is for mod guides and documentation, and I think that can include collaborative documentation about popular mods in a self-contained subsection. Collaborative pages require a wiki, they're not suitable for forums/Discord/Nexus. —Pathoschild (talk) 18:56, 14 April 2019 (BST)
Collaboration is entirely possible on the forums. margotbean (talk) 19:08, 14 April 2019 (BST)
Discussion is certainly possible on the forums, but collaborative editing isn't. To clarify: are you firmly opposed as a moderator to allowing a 'Modding:Projects' subsection, or are we just discussing possibilities? —Pathoschild (talk) 19:18, 14 April 2019 (BST)
I believe I've answered your question. FAQs about specific mods belong on nexus or the forums. The onus is on the author to keep the original post(s) updated with feedback from users. margotbean (talk) 19:28, 14 April 2019 (BST)
Alright. We'll look into alternate options to store modding documentation. —Pathoschild (talk) 19:31, 14 April 2019 (BST)

Deletion of search aids

Hi! You deleted the redirect pages I've added regarding the main defining features of a character you might not remember the name of like Gus as Bartender and... the doctor as the doctor. Yet you've kept Fabio as a redirect page just because I asked you to saying "All right, lol, because you actually signed your post, and only as a search aid, it can stay.".

You're right, Fabio is deleted as well. If you can't remember the villagers' names, go to the main page and click "Villagers". margotbean (talk) 22:16, 18 April 2019 (BST)
Whatever, keep being the wiki nazi I guess. --Barlakopofai (talk) 00:13, 19 April 2019 (BST)

Oh yeah also do you know how to make a redirect not appear in the search bar? It's clearly an option since some pages are case sensitive and don't automatically redirect if you type them in lowercase--Barlakopofai (talk) 20:53, 18 April 2019 (BST)

There is no way to make pages not appear in the search bar. All pages are case-sensitive, and the search is not as "smart" as say, a google search. If you type the name of a page using the wrong case, you will be taken to a page of results that contains the page you were looking for, usually as the first result. margotbean (talk) 22:16, 18 April 2019 (BST)

Lost Books

Noticed your recent edit on "Fishing", and its comment.

True, the count kept in the game file indicates 20 Lost Books found when the game finally stops generating any artifact spots for them.

However, after you find the first artifact spot (and count=1), the library has two titles it didn't have before: "Tips on Farming" and "A Book by Marnie". In addition, once the game file count actually reaches 20, the game still generates more Lost Book artifact spots, and until you pick some more up, it will continue to generate them (as far as I can see). Even so, the game file count remains at 20 the whole time, and no more titles appear in the library.

So I guess the text you changed needed something. And I'm not sure what's better than what you said. But what you said still doesn't really reflect the rather bizarre game behavior. Are there known bugs in this area? (And does anyone really care? I've tracked this stuff in my games for as long as I've played, but I only got started because at first it looked like it might be significant.) Butterbur (talk) 07:48, 14 May 2019 (BST)

I don't know what stops lost books from generating in Fishing Treasure Chests, and how exactly the bug behaves. The code says if(lostBooksFound < 21 and random number < .1) then generate lost book. If, as you say, the count in the save file never increases past 20, then lost books ought to generate forever. But, we know from playing the game that they don't. So, I simply don't know what's happening in the game code.
We've established that lost books keep generating in artifact spots, but until when? The end of the day sleep and save? Or finding a 22nd lost book? More testing is needed. If we can figure it out, it definitely belongs on the wiki, in a few places... margotbean (talk) 19:21, 14 May 2019 (BST)
Well, clearly it's not a question of how the program generates a lost book, but of when it tries to, or tries to use one. A generated code could go unused, and it appears that happens sometimes. Exactly what times, I'm unsure. But I know I have collected well beyond 20 lost book spots before they discontinued, perhaps as many as 25 total. I'm afraid I never looked into the save file to tell what kind of count it was storing at that time. I know only that it records 1 at the first time, but that it then displays the extra one in the museum, and adds one to the display with each increments, up to 21 books displayed and a count of 20 stored in the file. After that, I don't know. It makes me wonder if, as more lost book spots are dug up, the count somehow ends up higher than 20 (at least in active program memory). It may then be reduced later, perhaps when a day is saved, so we may never see a difference in the save file. And it appears that the internal program function does not occur in every circumstance that a lost book artifact spot is found. So I'd say there's more code to locate and examine. And I expect there's an independent trigger that turns off attempts to generate more lost book spots. After all, something brings it to a halt, and this code is certainly not it. Butterbur (talk) 06:46, 15 May 2019 (BST)
I was going to comment on here but I see a discussion is already going on :P I was trusting you on the 20 books and figured the game just makes it 21 at some point. I can see in my save file it IS saving 102 (lost book) as 21 found, which is what the game checks for on that fishing chest roll. But you're right, how exactly do you spell that out on the wiki?
<item>
    <key>
        <int>102</int>
    </key>
    <value>
        <ArrayOfInt>
            <int>21</int>
            <int>21</int>
        </ArrayOfInt>
    </value>
</item>

-- Geonigma (talk) 11:38, 19 May 2019

We definitely need to test, while keeping the save file open. We need to see at exactly what point it adds 1 to 20 to get 21. My assumption is still after sleeping & saving the night after finding the 20th book... but a test will tell for sure. I can find nothing in the code that triggers "add 1 to lost books found", but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Still on the "to do" list... :) margotbean (talk) 05:22, 20 May 2019 (BST)
Just saw a count of 21 books found in my file also, came to report it, and see that's already been done. As it is, I can provide confirmation of what Geonigma sees. It's new to me, but I went looking this time, so I may just not have noticed earlier. While there may be a bug in the termination of the generation of lost book artifact spots, it is still a fact that the first spot found reveals two books in the library itself, and that the maximum the library can contain is 21. I've never seen a variance in that, whatever the save file contains and whatever spots appear on the map. So I tend to think the proper thing would be to declare (in the article) what a player sees in the library, and let the game code handlers sort out whatever changes are necessary to make the appearance of spots work right. But I've always wondered if that first appearance of a pair of books wasn't the result of an initialization bug, too. And I can't see how there really would be 21 books if Ape didn't intend for there to be that number. Butterbur (talk) 17:18, 20 May 2019 (BST)

My initial comment of this section on 14 May 2019 appears to be in error. I was depending upon info collected in earlier game versions and, announcement or not, intended or not, there appear to have been changes in save file encoding I had not noticed before. This is made apparent to me because my latest game run was created by and entirely played in game version 1.3.36 (latest PC), and I see the save file from this version is different from that of some earlier versions after the first lost book artifact is found. (When the change happened, I can't say.) However, I found that first artifact on 2 Spring. The save file at the start of that day showed no archaeology found, and at the start of 3 Spring, it had recorded a count of 2 books (under key 102), the result of having dug up just one spot. So, the difference is that right from the start, the save file is recording the initial pair as a count of 2 instead of a count of 1, with subsequent counts incrementing (I think) just as one would expect, by one per artifact spot dug, and on up to a count of 21. Presumably, at this point, artifact spots cease to be generated (per code listed here), though this also would not be as before, when the count appeared to stop at 20.

This isn't exactly a "test", but since I keep a copy of each save file, day by day as the game progresses, I am able to determine the recorded results from each game-day's play, right back to the initial file. It seems to answer some of the questions above, if you accept the methodology (not exactly orthodox).

I can testify to my prior new game, begun under version 1.3.32, and continued past the release of 1.3.36, when artifact spots did continue to appear some (vague) time after all books had been found and displayed in the library. No idea if the update in the middle affected that in any way. And sorry for any misstatements due to my lack of awareness off such changes. It seems only practical simply to be sure that version 1.3.36 is the basis for any article changes, as well as testing. And the save file changes would seem to confer an official status to a maximum book count of 21, not 20. Butterbur (talk) 18:37, 20 May 2019 (BST)

Well, let's see if you are able to keep collecting lost books after the library is full. I would guess not, at least with new games started with v1.3.36. If the bug is fixed, that's a good thing! If not... argh! margotbean (talk) 17:14, 21 May 2019 (BST)
I never was able to collect books after the library was full. It only ever held 21. I could only dig up lost book artifacts, which had no effect on the library when it was full. In this newest game run, I don't remember seeing any new artifacts after the library was full, but as I thought I had a couple to go, I could have got that wrong. I just know I didn't dig any.
But I guess one bug is fixed: the count. There's still the matter of the first artifact dig producing two books, but it seems to be a question whether or not that's really a bug. Perhaps the article should state there are 21 books to find (or the library holds that many), but that you need only dig up 20 lost book artifact spots to get them? (Pretty minor detail, yes?) Butterbur (talk) 18:09, 21 May 2019 (BST)
The first day you start a new game, there's a lost book hovering over the bookcase in the library, however, you cannot read it. As soon as you find a legitimate book (in a treasure chest or artifact spot), there are two books in the library to read, but still only one hovering over the bookcase in the library. (This may change after sleeping and saving, I don't know). I definitely do not want to try to explain any of this on the wiki! It's pretty technical, and still seems ... if not buggy, then sloppy. As long as players aren't fishing up 22+ lost books, I think what's written is fine. If we change the Lost Books page to say "There are actually 21 lost books, but one is a freebee" then we have to change all pages that refer to the total # of lost books. And there are only 20 listed on the Lost Books page, I believe. So... yeah... I'm not touching it at this point.  :D margotbean (talk) 19:25, 21 May 2019 (BST)
As you say: technical, and if not buggy, sloppy. Which is exactly why I offered my suggestions as the best possible changes I could think of. But I agree with you that no action is the best solution, and that has been my expectation. Still, we did seem to resolve enough of what is going on to consign all remaining difficulties to an official, well-deserved insignificance. A spring cleaning - dust bunnies swept from the corner. ;) Butterbur (talk) 01:09, 22 May 2019 (BST)

One additional thing occurred to me this morning, re the one initial book in the library that can't be read until another is found by digging an artifact. The initial save file contains a null field for archaeology: <archaeologyFound />. This could hint at the game's internal data, namely that it holds a null pointer or some other indicator of nullity. That could be interpreted by the code quite differently (perhaps) than a pointer to an already-existing memory structure that has zero elements, they key "102" and count of zero or one for example. To all appearances, the structure and key are created by the first lost-book artifact dig, opening up the possibility of reading a book. Thus the initial book (Tips on Farming), which seems to exist beforehand, then becomes accessible to the player. The question that could be asked of Ape (or other maintainers) is if that is an intended "artifact" of the coding, and a desired behavior. An initialization change might just alter game behavior to make the initial book readable on day 1, if that were considered an improvement. Butterbur (talk) 16:53, 23 May 2019 (BST)

Fishing discussion

Hello!

I did quite a few changes on fishing yesterday. My goal was, over the next few weeks, to add more information about fishing in general on the wiki. Indeed, it is information that I have been looking for a long time, and that I have been feeling was missing from the wiki. I thus took upon myself to perform testing and modify the wiki accordingly. However, I have noticed that you have reverted some of these changes. I hope you don't mind if we talk about them to make sure that the info on the wiki is appropriate!

Farm Maps

  • Removing from the Standard Farm "Players can only catch trash". To the best of my knowledge, no fish can be caught on the Standard Map. If you do have information regarding the spawn list of fishes, would you mind sharing it? If however this information proves to be accurate, I think it would be better to let it on the wiki.
  • The removal of the word "much" for "much higher chances for trash". Indeed, from my personal testing, players get not just a little but a LOT more trash than when fishing normally, and I think that this fact has to be emphasized. Besides, there is a contrast in the trash catching rate between the Riverland Farms and the other maps, the former getting less trash than the later (though it is still more trash than when fishing outside the farm). This contrast should also be emphasized imho.
  • The removal of the pool of bubbles from the Riverland Farms. In my opinion, this information is relevant as it is basically what this map is about. Besides, I do not think that other farm maps spawn pools of bubbles, or at least clearly not with the same spawn rate.
  • Quality of fishes. Though I do agree with you that fish quality is normally decided solely by casting distance, my testing has revealed that it seems to be inaccurate on the farm. Letting aside the Hill-top map (where you won't be able to have a good casting distance anyway), my personal testing has revealed that there is a higher chance for better quality fishes outside the farm, regardless of the casting distance. Though this is of little impact when the player is level 10 fishing, this difference is VERY noticeable at lower fishing levels.

Farm Pond

As discussed above, my current testing has revealed that only trash can be caught on the Standard Farm, and that Riverlands Farm has a lower trash catching rate than the other farm maps, though still higher than when fishing anywhere else. Imho, this is relevant information.

Cindersap Forest

Removing the pond fish table. My goal was, over the next few weeks, to add the fishing tables for each locations' pages. I do not think this would be an inappropriate information, when clicking on the Cindersap Forest page for example, to have a subsection for fishing in the location, including a table displaying all catchable fishes. As a wiki user first and foremost, this is actually one of the information I am looking for when clicking on a location page. Besides, the only other way to have access to the list of fishes is using the Fish page, which is far from being convenient. Indeed, you can only have access to the full list of fishes instead of only the ones you are looking for, polluting the relevant information. Besides, ordering by spawn location doesn't help much as some fishes have several spawn locations, messing up the ordering. I've actually had to create my own Excel file to properly order the fishes so that the tables would be relevant and useful. In this respect, I do think this additional information would be useful and interesting on the wiki.


Please let me know what you think about these comments or if you have additional relevant data, so we can improve the wiki!

Statue of Perfection exploit

Oh, is signing your name to the exploit you find not allowed? This one is a really big one and it’s nice to get credit for finding it. THKlasen (talk) 18:46, 20 May 2019 (BST)

The talk page is a perfectly fine place to make a statement about discovery. Know, however, that your edits are in the page history forever, so your username will show as the one who added the info to the page forever. Congratulations on your find! margotbean (talk) 17:18, 21 May 2019 (BST)

Ah, I figured that out. Thanx for that. It’s a nice achievement to make, especially as it is so big. Thanx for the info

Extra fertilizer calculations

Hi Margotbean,

This is two-part reply for a change of mine that you recently reverted on the Fertilizer page.

1) Can you help me understand what was missing that I should have added (and/or what can be removed to avoid TMI)? I sincerely believe that the information I added is useful and would like to have my edits reinstated (subject to your approval).

Would it be enough to reinstate it with this added explanation of the calculations (in bold)?

The "Average Sell Price" column shows the relative sell price you can expect from your harvest when compared to the crop's base price. Considering that Silver-quality crops are worth 25% more than their base price and Gold-quality crops are worth 50% more than their base price, the Average Sell Price column can be calculated by the following:

 Average Sell Price = % Regular quality   +   % Silver quality × 1.25   +   % Gold quality × 1.5

And then an example can be given ...

For example, if you have level 4 farming and a harvest with basic fertilizer, from the tables below you can expect 50% of your crops to be regular quality, 31% to be silver quality, and 19% to be gold quality. Therefore, the Average sell Price would be 50% + 31% × 1.25 + 19% × 1.5, or 117.25%. This means that a harvest of 500 parsnips (base price 35g) in this scenario would have an average sell price of 20,518.75g (500 × 35g × 117.25%).

2) I mistakenly said "super fertilizer" when I meant to say "deluxe fertilizer".

So, what do you think? The reason why I think this is important is so that people can make their own judgments as to which type of fertilizer they should use (like, is it really worth it to gather 100 sap just to lay down basic fertilizer for cauliflower at level 2 farming? It might be better instead to use your energy elsewhere and to not even consider using fertilizer at this point in the game).

Thank you,

Bennycopter (talk) 22:18, 3 June 2019 (BST)

If I may barge in: I agree considering fertilizer is good to do. But in my experience, the choices have been easy. However, I may do some things differently from others, so you may not want follow my pattern. But you may learn new approaches about how to think about this. For I find that every choice interconnects with every other and it is total influences that end up mattering most.
From my early games, I have always found it beneficial to earn Forage skill level 4 by 15 Spring 1. Sound hard? Not hugely, but it does require consistent prioritization in the first two weeks. How do I do it? Chopping trees, and going for everything else I can find, especially Spring Onion. Why? You get little energy at first, and what you have is used up fast on all activities. You need food desperately. Spring Onions. Until Spring 15. Then you collect Salmonberries. Never sell them. They're great for gifts to certain villagers. But mostly, you eat them. Great for replenishing yourself in the mines. Cooking is not much of an option in year 1. In Fall, you continue the same principle with Blackberries, but should be at Foraging 8 by then. Why push that skill? Because it doubles your take of berries in Spring, triples them in Fall. Food.
Ok, what's that got to do with Fertilizer? You want to fertilize somehow for increased farming profit, and for the Quality Crops bundle, and the gold Cauliflower for putting in the soup at the Luau. Each of those targets has its own benefits. But if you're working at upping Forage skill all the time, you're cutting trees about as fast as you can while balancing your activities. And that gives you hundreds of sap, and hundreds of Basic Fertilizer, even early on. Bingo. It's all a lock.
My strategies mostly depend upon prioritizing the activities that give more than one bang for the energy point, and distributing them across time. For example: you need a Chest on day one, or you'll have to throw away some of the materials gathered by clearing farm land (almost guaranteed). Why? Because you won't be able to carry seed items from the store back to the farm: not enough room in the backpack alone. Needed: 50 wood. Chop trees. Increase forage? You also need the east tidal pools on the beach across the broken bridge. Needed: 300 wood. Chop trees. I usually can get it done on day 3. Mining's not possible at that time, and I wait to fish much until a little later, though I get the pole right away.
See how this works? Run to the forest for Spring Onions. Chop trees etc that are in the way or nearby. Grab all beach forage and sell it to get 2000g for a backpack upgrade, because you can't keep running back to your chest all the time. One thing leads to another.
Now, think about how fertilizer best fits into your overall operations. It isn't about gathering Sap just so you can make Fertilizer and increase your crop profit. Or if it is, you may be able to achieve better financial returns through a variety of activities. Make them all work for you, and Fertilizer will find its natural place among them. Good luck. Butterbur (talk) 07:33, 4 June 2019 (BST)
Hi Butterbur, thank you for your reply! From what you said, I realize that the information I posted was too much for its context. Perhaps my information would be better located on this page (Crops#Gold_per_Day), where harvest sell price is already discussed? Bennycopter (talk) 16:04, 4 June 2019 (BST)
You're welcome. You can try that, I guess. But I think daily crop profits are somewhat of another case of looking too hard at the minutiae instead of getting the bigger picture. Namely, grow crops so you can cover all the crop bundles and get the Greenhouse soonest. Fill the Greenhouse with Starfruit, then Ancient Fruit, and before that Rhubarb, Pumpkin, or Melon. Those are your big profits as crops.
But actually, build an extra Barn for holding Kegs and fill it (eventually) with something close to the max (135 Kegs). The Artisan profession is the big key to farming profits, and growing crops in the Greenhouse is the big key to feeding premium crops to Artisan equipment. It takes tons of wood to build buildings and kegs, and some time to gather money, metal bars, stone, and oak resin also. (Grow a tree farm on the farm and make Tappers.) But a good foundation can be laid before year 2, and by the time you have 50 kegs or so, you'll never care about crop quality again.
Then the crops are all for cooking, gifts, and artisan goods. And you will long ago have reached Farming level 10. Gold quality then counts only for gifts, and you'll get plenty of them without fertilizer, and plenty of profit without crop quality. So crop quality really only has much impact in year 1, and not as much as you'd think. I use (and need) Fishing anyway, and it provides whatever profit boosts are required shorter term. Again, it's the balances and trade-offs. But it takes all your time and energy to pursue all the activities, so there's plenty of low-hanging fruit to grab without sweating maximization of just one element.
All of which adds up to saying that the information, while not useless, is of limited help. Butterbur (talk) 18:10, 4 June 2019 (BST)
It occurs to me that I should say that my comments are optimized for the standard farm map. There are other approaches to the game, and the other maps emphasize other activities and make farming and artisan goods less abundant. So don't discard looking at crop profits. Just keep them in balance for your game. And keep the big picture always in mind. The big picture always has all the elements, no matter the map. It's the balance that shifts. Butterbur (talk) 18:17, 4 June 2019 (BST)
I think the percentages in the tables on the Fertilizer page are enough information to answer the question "should I fertilize or not?" If it makes you feel better, there have been many other players before you who wanted to crunch the numbers in ways too complex for the wiki. Generally, they post spreadsheets on the subreddit, or create the information on their user pages. You're free to do so as well. Kindest regards, margotbean (talk) 19:45, 4 June 2019 (BST)
Thank you both for your replies! I will leave this wiki as-is and keep the complexities in Excel. Bennycopter (talk) 22:56, 4 June 2019 (BST)
Again, you're welcome. And spreadsheets are my tool also. Memory jogs as well as custom info for my favorite plans. Not up everyone's alley. Best of luck. Butterbur (talk) 23:46, 4 June 2019 (BST)

Crop Info Tables - Deleted 'Best Plant by'

Hey Margot, I noticed that you removed the 'Best Plant by' column for Fall crops that I added yesterday. Could you explain your reasoning?

The dates I added represent the latest time by which a crop should be planted that season to achieve multiple harvests, without use of fertilizer or the Agriculturist profession. The last harvest would be the 28th of the season. This information doesn't exist in any of the individual crop pages and I assumed that the best place to add them were the crop tables for each season. I find myself calculating them every time I plan for a new season, and having to re-do them every season has become a bit of a hassle, especially since I don't do calculations in a single place.

If it's because the information seems ambiguous, an explanation can be added on the main Crops article just above it. I think a lot of people can benefit from this added info, at least the ones who plan for huge seed hauls at the beginning of every season. The gap you have gives you time to raise money for the more expensive seeds, especially for players on their first year. Do take a second look and reconsider.

Cheers! (RinnRin (talk) 11:43, 26 June 2019 (BST))