User talk:Margotbean

From Stardew Valley Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search
This is Margotbean's talk page, where you can send messages and comments to Margotbean.
  • Sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~).
  • Put new text below old text.
  • Be polite.
  • Assume good faith.
  • Don't delete discussions.

Regarding tailoring & dyeing

Hi Margotbean,

I just saw your note on my reverted edits on the minerals page. If your statement is correct, then the tailoring and dyeing pages as well as the pages for some of the individual minerals are incorrect. There are several minerals that are not listed on the tailoring or dyeing page, and many that don't have the notation on their individual pages.

Selfea (talk) 06:37, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Yep, I'm aware of the inconsistency. I've been working several hours a day for several days on the issue, but it's going to take a few more days to finish. margotbean (talk) 16:48, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
Thank you! Selfea (talk) 02:24, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
Well, I've got Tailoring and Dye Pots covered. Still to do is figure out which items can be used to dye existing clothing at the Sewing Machine. This is more complicated than figuring out which items the Dye Pots will accept. Still working on it.........  :D margotbean (talk) 22:20, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation Pages

Hi Margotbean,

I use disambiguation pages for bookmarking and copy/paste in my browser address bar. This saves me a few clicks (go to the wiki, type the term, hit search). Do you as moderator support disambiguation pages? ~Nationtheleb

Hello Nationtheleb! In 3 years I've found the need for only one disambiguation page, and that one is if-fy. But, you are free to create a page full of links in your user space (on your user page), and bookmark that page. margotbean (talk) 09:12, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Tailoring sections on item pages

Hey Margotbean,

I've notices you've been putting tailoring sections on all the item pages. I'm working a script that will crawl through the tailoring page and make a tailoring section for each ingredient page. If you're currently doing it manually, this may save you a lot of work.

Thanks,

JohnFarm (talk) 20:55, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

That would have been super-valuable info about 5 days ago, John! But, as it is, I'm almost finished. Can I contact you in the future for similar tasks? (My php skills are not great). margotbean (talk) 21:10, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
Yeah feel free to contact me. I don't know any php really: I was using python and selenium to automate it through the user interface. I'll put my script on my user page once I'm done in case more things get added to the tailoring page.
Most appreciated, thank you!! margotbean (talk) 21:23, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
In case it's useful, see pywikibot (a framework for automating edits in Python) or AutoWikiBrowser (an automation GUI). —Pathoschild (talk) 23:54, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Question about Semantic Data

Hello. I'm noticing that on the Fish page, fish prices are manually typed. e.g. | data-sort-value="200"|{{Qualityprice|Pufferfish|200|iridium}}. This strikes me as a bug, because ideally, fish prices should be located in one place (e.g. on the individual fish page itself) and other pages on the wiki should transclude that information. That way, if the fish price is changed in a patch, only one value needs to change. In my experience, other MediaWikis accomplish this kind of thing with the Semantic MediaWiki extension, but there are probably multiple ways to go about it. Based on the current state of the Stardew Valley Wiki, is there a way for me to fix this bug on the Fish page and edit it so that all of the prices are transcluded? Additionally, is there a Stardew Valley Wiki Discord server or IRC server or something? (It would be nice to have some real-time discussion.) --Zamiel (talk) 23:19, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

I'm afraid the answer to both questions is no. margotbean (talk) 00:39, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
Ok. Would you be opposed to me adding a new column to the Fish page for Gold per Energy ratio? It kind of sucks because I have to copy-paste a lot of data from the individual pages. --Zamiel (talk) 01:36, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
The table is too wide already, and that kind of analysis belongs in user space, where it can be explained properly. You have to also remember that the wiki exists in 12 languages, so changes made to the English wiki have to be carried out in 11 other languages. margotbean (talk) 01:38, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
Why did you delete the template that I was working on? --Zamiel (talk) 02:04, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Gold to Energy Ratios

Hello; I saw that you reverted my edits to the Forage page without adding a new message to my user talk page to explain why. First of all, isn't this considered quite rude? And second of all, why was the edit reverted? --Zamiel (talk) 19:30, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

The edits to Fish and Forage were reverted for the same reason, which can be found in the comment to the edit on the Fish page. margotbean (talk) 19:42, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
I think you may misunderstand the point of the gold to energy ratio page. It is not saying to "eat the chapest items", as you explained in your message, but rather to eat the items with the smallest ratio, which is quite a different thing from the price altogether. Why exactly is the reasoning questionable? --Zamiel (talk) 19:53, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
At the start of the game, there are several factors to consider, so "all else being equal" is essentially meaningless. There is no case where other factors are not a major consideration in what to eat for energy. As I said in the comment to the edit, the subreddit might be a better place for your analysis, where there are several conversations about what is the best source of energy in all phases of the game. margotbean (talk) 20:07, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
Margot, I completely agree with you that the simple gold to energy ratio should not be the major consideration in determining which item you eat. With that I said, isn't stating that "there is no case where other factors are not a major consideration" going just a wee bit too far? In my recent playthrough of the game, I spent a lot of time fishing in the early parts of Spring. And as you may imagine, I found a bunch of fish that were not used in any (major) quests: Carp, Chub, Sardine, Sunfish, and more. For all intents and purposes at this point in the game, the only use for these items was to eat them or sell them. Thus, for each new fish I discovered, I would refer to the wiki to see what the price was, and then do the manual calculation to find out what the ratio was. This quickly became really tedious and I found myself wondering why the hell the wiki just didn't show this information already so that I didn't have to do the calculations myself. Taking a step back from my story, I don't think my situation here is particularly exotic or esoteric - I would imagine that plenty of players besides me have been in a situation where they have a bunch of extra non-interesting fish (or a bunch of extra non-interesting foragables) and need to see which ones at a glance are the most valuable to sell. Having a wiki page for people to go to and Ctrl+F to quickly find the various ratios that they need seems to be a valuable thing to have on the wiki. Overall, the main point of the page is to simply have a repository for all the ratios; I only added the coloring of the rows and the strategy prescription as an afterthought. Perhaps you would like the page better if it did not prescribe a particular "Buy or Sell" strategy and instead simply listed the mathematical ratios for the end-user to consume? --Zamiel (talk) 20:28, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
Margot: tedium avoidance. Easy to understand. Fast focus on what you want to consider. I get it.
I went overboard describing my early game context to Zamiel, but I didn't read "recommendation" in the intent of the table, despite that word's appearance there. Aren't you really more concerned about multi-page impact and wiki maintenance? I think that can be cleaned up too. You do rather shut people down with hard nos sometimes. Butterbur (talk) 04:42, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Gold to Energy Ratios 2

Margot, are you going to respond to the last message that I wrote in the Gold to Energy Ratios section? I put a lot of effort into writing it, as well as creating the Gold to Energy Ratios page more generally. --Zamiel (talk) 23:15, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

The ratio is a simple division equation of questionable value. Instead of using the "Show preview" button, you made 6 new pages and over 150 edits, all of which had to be patrolled by yours truly. I had considered giving you a time-out for spamming, but I know you were editing in good faith. The end result is something that belongs in a spreadsheet on your hard drive, not the wiki.
Since that time, you've made extensive edits to pages without discussion on talk pages, some of which contained false information, and had to be cleaned up. Some still need extensive cleanup and verification. My advice to you is to take the enthusiasm and put it into fact-checking and data validation before making any more wiki edits. margotbean (talk) 23:34, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
1) I apologize for the the false information; what was it? 2) As for the many edits, that was because I was creating the templates for the GPE page. Can you explain how do preview a template change on another page without saving the template code? 3) As for the Gold to Energy ratio, you think they are of questionable value and I think they are of tremendous value. Even if the real value is somewhere in the middle, help me understand the reasoning behind not allowing a short, one sentence link to them on the Fish page. I can understand not wanting that information on the Fish page itself, as it imposes a complexity cost and an overhead cost. But that doesn't apply to a link. Isn't the overhead cost of just having a single sentence at the bottom of the page that links elsewhere essentially 0? --Zamiel (talk) 15:39, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
One example of false information is that perfect catches do not result in silver quality for normal quality fish. There may or may not be other inaccuracies, my point was that edit after edit was being made on the fly, without taking the time to think about the information first. I see you've created a proposed Fishing page, so I think you're getting it now. Well done! Now it can be discussed and nit-picked before being committed to the main wiki.
The spammy changes were adding a "a" to the Gold to Energy ratios page, then saving, then adding a "b", then saving, then deleting both and saving, then adding an "I", saving, etc. The template can be saved, but the page where it's transcluded should be previewed.
The cost of adding a sentence to the page is that it's explained nowhere what the ratio actually is. I could add a sentence saying "for more information see the banana index", but that wouldn't explain why anyone should click on it. Even on the page itself, it's not explained that the index is simply gold divided by energy. The entire page can be replaced with a sentence saying "divide sell price by energy, and eat foods with a result less than 2." But, SIX templates and 150 edits later, you never explained why 2 is the cutoff point. margotbean (talk) 17:47, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
1) During my testing, clicking "Preview" on the Gold to Energy ratios page did not actually work to preview the changed template, because MediaWiki was caching the results of the template. Thus, I had to actually make a dummy-edit to the page in order for the server to recompute the template, so I do believe that the "ab" edits were necessary. [Edit - I did some testing just now and I was not able to replicate this caching behavior, so I'm either crazy or something weird was happening when I was originally experimenting with this.]
2) I've edited the Gold to Energy page to include how the ratio was calculated. Please review the page's header and the new page more generally. It no longer prescribes a recommended strategy, and makes a point to note that players should save items for quests, gifting, and so forth. I think that these changes may adequately address the concerns that you have raised thus far. --Zamiel (talk) 18:14, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Fish Pond

Hi, you reverted my latest change. If you believe the information is incorrect, then the wiki page should explicitly provide the correct information, rather than leaving it ambiguous. I added the info after seeing three different guides mention the same thing, so if you are correct, there's a lot of misinformation out there that the wiki page should correct.

Adding crop profitability page

Hello Margotbean,

I'd like to push back a little bit on the deletion of an in-progress crop profitability page that was deleted by you, suggested instead for a private user page/reddit post. It is my opinion that such a page would be valuable on the wiki for use by general public. A reason you gave was that too much complexity is not needed - however, pages like Animal Products Profitability, Preserves Jar Productivity, Keg Productivity seem to be right in line with the goal of adding such a page. Furthermore, I don't see any general wiki policies on what pages are considered acceptable and the deletion, from my perspective, seems like an arbitrary decision from one individual instead of a community choice and against the general philosophy of a wiki. That being said, I would like to continue to create such a page and it have it linked for general use. If you still believe it should not be created, what is the avenue for redress? Are there other moderators that can weigh in? Some community guidelines that can be cited?

Reading above it looks as though a similar disagreement between you and Zamiel about an gold use per energy page. My naive impulse is, again, I see no harm in having a page as suggested.

I appreciate and your time and reply, thanks, Kevin, Meanturing (talk) 01:05, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

In general, the reason I moved the page to user space is that there have been numerous editors who have wanted to crunch the numbers of crop profits in different ways over the last 3 years. Everyone has their own preference for how they want to do the math, and they're all different. Everyone finds their own method of min/maxing to be valuable. We simply can't show everyone's favorite in the main wiki.
In specific, (although I understand the page is unfinished), some of the issues are:
  • Every equation requires an explanation. Gold per Day from single harvest -- not apparent what that is, seems to be duplicate info from the Crops page.
  • Processing prices - a duplicate of Keg/Preserves Jar productivity pages?
  • Profit per season - assumes planting on day 1 and not missing any days? Doesn't say.
  • Max Harvests per Season with Deluxe Speed-Gro is a basically a duplicate of the Crop Growth Calendars.
  • Profit per Season Selling Speed Grown Crops doesn't seem to take crop quality into account (or does it?) - it doesn't say. This is kind of an important detail.
Having said all that, the process for redress is to ask the Admin Katzeus to take a look at the issue. You can leave a note on his talk page, and give him some time to look it over. I appreciate your wanting to make the wiki better! Thanks, margotbean (talk) 17:09, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Nightmarket fish prices/reverting edits in general

Hello Margotbean,

I see that you've reversed a minor edit on the Night Market page where I added the prices of the fish/objects that can be caught at the submarine fishing with the reasoning "you can't decide what is caught so no point." I disagree with this reasoning, I went to the Night Market page with the question "what's the approximate sale prices of the night market fish." and instead had to click through the individual fish from that page. To make this simpler, I thought adding the prices, especially with the % chance to be caught, would help as quick reference and I believe made the page (in a minor way) better.

I do not believe that the reasoning "I don't like this/I don't think this is useful" is a valid reason to revert edits. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand the wiki to be a collaborative space, not a space that's gatekept and curated to meet the specific vision of one/a few individuals. Unless there is a universal/general guideline of what is expected in the wiki, I would expect edits made in good faith to stand unless there is consensus of it specifically making the wiki or a page worse.

I believe the proper channel for minor edits where the difference is a preference or taste to open a discussion in the talk page, not immediately reverting the edit. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I now have no clear idea what edits I could make that would not be immediately reversed, and feel the determining factor is whether your personal decision of whether you think the edit is good or not. I do not believe this should be the standard and urge a change of your practices and maybe a written guideline for acceptable edits.

Please consider what I have written, please understand that I write this to push for a more accepting wiki that's more open and encouraging.

Thank you for your time, Kevin, Meanturing (talk) 15:56, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Minerals

Thanks for fixing Minerals. Sorry for the blooper. Tom Haws (talk) 01:42, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

No problem at all! margotbean (talk) 16:55, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Crop Growth Calendars and Sprites

I was in the process of figuring out how to make a crop growth calendar for the different Wild Seeds. Could not find the correct growth stage sprites in the uploaded files. I found the crops.xnb file in my Stardew folder and converted to PNG to get them, but the sprites in there are much smaller than the ones on the wiki. Wondering where the larger sprites are coming from or if I should just use the ~20x20 ones I'm getting from that game file. Mjblink (talk) 09:13, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Sprites taken from sprite sheets normally are 16x16px, which can be increased in an image editor to 48x48px (choose "nearest neighbor" as the type of change, not bicubic or any other choice). margotbean (talk) 22:20, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Secrets vs Secret Notes

Saw your last edit; thanks as always for making my/our changes better! For this one, how about a "Not to be confused with Secret Notes"? Is that better? I think the page titles are so similar and I keep going to Secrets instead of Secret Notes when using search, so I thought it would help. If it's still a no, then no prob! Thanks. Warden (talk) 20:06, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

When I type "secret" in the search bar, the first page listed is "Secret Note" (which redirects to Secret Notes). I'm curious, what's happening for you? margotbean (talk) 16:45, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
Yeah you're right, the search results won't default to Secrets without the final "s". I might have embellished that part... Sorry :) So they don't need a distinguish? Warden (talk) 18:05, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
In all honesty, I don't think so. I think putting "See also: Secret Notes" at the top of a page with a one-line intro would look weird. The other option is to put "For Secret Notes, see Secret Notes." which seems a little silly to me. margotbean (talk) 18:51, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Regarding grass starter

As to your question what happens if you leave the game before Spring one, I think you know quite well that all of the following days dice rolls are made before the save is made. Therefore if you leave the game before the save then your placement won't be saved. I am currently in Spring of my 6th year on my current save. I have pushed my farming plots to nearly a 1000 and was trying to get a jump on Spring by doing whatever I could before the Spring turn and Its the 1st time I ever tried planting grass starter during Winter. I encourage you to test this yourself. I was quite surprised to see every single untilled square that didn't get rolled a weed be covered in grass on the 1st day of Spring with only 100 grass starters placed the night before. Worm (talk) 07:19, 5 March 2020 (UTC) Worm (talk) 07:19, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Code reference, please! margotbean (talk) 16:45, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Regarding your message to me which idk how to respond to 0w0

Hello Margotbean! Thank you for telling me that as i didn't realize that those were covered in the pages you linked me. Signed your friendly Eevee. UwU Eevee (talk) 03:46, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Merge new page into object data?

Hi! Should we merge Modding:Springobjects into Modding:Object data? I think it'd fit well in the "Images" section, maybe in a collapsible box. —Pathoschild (talk) 18:05, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Funny enough, that was how I first previewed it! I was worried that it was too big, though, and would make the page load slowly (soooo many images), so that you'd see the table un-collapsed for several seconds before it collapsed -- that was what it did to me even without all the images. I could go either way with it, though.
I definitely want to finish it on the separate page before moving it, in any case. I don't have a strong opinion about where it should go, it's your call. margotbean (talk) 18:11, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Undone Workbench edit

My minor grammatical edit on the Workbench article was because the description already used the word "adjacent". As english is not my first language, I had to look up the definition of adjacent and that didn't clarify if this meant "chests within a certain radius" like a scarecrow or sprinklers area of effect, or "chests in contact" with the workbench, so I had to test it ingame to be sure. I think the wiki should clarify the meaning rather than repeat the same words. Perhaps mention "a 3x3 square" or something if that's better.

About The Maru Cutscene Thing

Hi, I'm sorry that my edit didn't really make sense on the Maru cutscene; I had some trouble with the wording =P I don't really know how to properly express the different viewpoints, TBH, but that cutscene was, well, a different viewpoint as I remember it and I wanted to somehow make a note of it, since it was unusual. I understand why it got reverted because it didn't make sense the way I phrased it. =P (I read the note you put in the edit, and it's true— well, I don't know what isometric means in all honesty, but yeah) =P Fun Cupcake i81 (talk) 00:44, 2 April 2020 (UTC) =)

Technical Difficulties playing Stardew Valley via Steam on my computer; plus, I've been blocked -- and I'm new here

I have been blocked from starting a discussion topic about a technical difficulty I'm having with playing Stardew Valley via Steam on my computer. You do not have permission to create pages, for the following reason:

Your IP address has been automatically blocked because it was used by another user, who was blocked by Margotbean. The reason given is:

   Autoblocked because your IP address has been recently used by "Xx dusty xX".

The reason given for Xx dusty xX's block is "Inserting nonsense/gibberish into pages"

   Start of block: 16:53, 2 April 2020
   Expiry of block: 16:53, 3 April 2020
   Intended blockee: 141.101.98.58

You may contact Margotbean or one of the other administrators to discuss the block.

Note that you may not use the "email this user" feature unless you have a valid email address registered in your user preferences and you have not been blocked from using it.

Your current IP address is 141.101.98.58, and the block ID is #655. Please include all above details in any queries you make.

Can you help me get unblocked?

And can you help me fix the technical difficulty that prevents me from highlighting plants in Stardew Valley bundles? That's the most important thing I'd like help with. Many thanks!

P.S. I'm new here -- have just now, today, set up my account.

Mary Bull

Information request

Hi, I'm the new translator in the italian wiki. I only use this wiki to copy the code. Could you explain this message? This is the second time it appears to me. Thank you UnBaroQualunque (talk) 15:21, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

You do not have permission to edit this page, for the following reason:

Your IP address has been automatically blocked because it was used by another user, who was blocked by Margotbean. The reason given is:

Autoblocked because your IP address has been recently used by "Xx dusty xX". The reason given for Xx dusty xX's block is "Inserting nonsense/gibberish into pages"

Start of block: 16:53, 2 April 2020 Expiry of block: 16:53, 3 April 2020 Intended blockee: 141.101.98.58 You may contact Margotbean or one of the other administrators to discuss the block.

Note that you may not use the "email this user" feature unless you have a valid email address registered in your user preferences and you have not been blocked from using it.

Your current IP address is 141.101.98.58, and the block ID is #655. Please include all above details in any queries you make.

Recipe data

Hi, I'd like to add a Modding:Recipe data page with raw data and format annotations for Content\Data\CraftingRecipes.xnb and Content\Data\CookingRecipes.xnb. It would help modders adding recipes via CP to produce vanilla items (as opposed to JA items which get their recipes through JA). Does that sound like a good page idea? If so, would you prefer one page for all the recipe data (the two formats are very similar) or two separate pages?

Thanks, kdau (talk) 00:44, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Move or edit a page title

Very recently I started editing and I am not a person who speaks English very well, or understands it a lot, but I found it disappointing that the Modding page redirects you to the Spanish wiki to a page that does not have any information on how make mods, translate them or even how to install them as Modding has, so I said "Well, I could translate it" and I wanted to start with the title, in order to create more pages ... And I couldn't change the title, maybe there is a way but I don't I found her. Then I thought about creating the pages individually, but I also did not find the option to create and then I thought Why is there no guide on how to do it? And I searched, but I did not find it so easily, I just found things to move pages and so, maybe I am not looking well, but ... I can not, and then I thought to ask some administrator of the page in Spanish and not I found, I do not know who they are or where to look for them and I ended up here, giving my concerns to you, a moderator of the page in English, thinking about if you could help me to know where to find that information or if you could provide it to me, sorry for my bad English and many Thank you for your attention if you read this completely.

Minirvana (talk) 09:20, April 4 2020 (UTC)

Spam Keywords

I was modifying a page and suddenly he told me that my action was considered harmful and that in a few words my action was "Spam Keywords" and he told me that if my action was legitimate, I would come to find an administrator or moderator, so here I am, Sorry for the inconvenience, I would like you to agree to my modification of the text. Thank you for reading. Minirvana (talk) 05:57 5 April 2020

Modding:Mod compatibility

I have problems trying to add a footnote like a entered in the page in English, but as much as I tried I did not know how it worked, I got into the guide on mediawiki and apart from if I did not know if it had the extension that it said it did not work when doing it by that means, then I tried to directly enter the footnotes that were in Mod Compatibility and it didn't work, it said something that the refs did not match in reference, basically the same message as when I tried to enter a footnote by myself. Sorry for so much inconvenience and thanks for reading despite my poor english.

By the way, if you can't guide me, I just wanted to put a footnote saying that the link in the image that is included leads to a page in English, because I don't know if there is an exactly the same page in the wiki in Spanish, the file is SMAPI Compatibility, in case it could be added in Spanish it would be fine or if you already have a direct link, but in case there wasn't, if you could put the footnote it would be a relief.

Note: The page you were editing was Compatibilidad de Mods Minirvana (talk) 11:50 6 April 2020

Footnotes problems

Thanks, but I do not understand what you did at all, since the footnotes still do not work, I do not know if you understood me, I will leave the error "Error en la cita: La etiqueta ref definida en references pertenece al grupo "" no declarado en el texto precedente." and I will leave the page of what I want to do Footnotes and I will leave you what I want to enter Footnotes references

 ref name = gráfico Este link redirige a una página en ingles ref

references

and I already tried with all the words that the text has, none works, does not put it.(Remove all > and / to avoid problems on this page)

I really need help because it is a part of the page in English, and I will need to translate it, please help Minirvana (talk) 19:40 6 April 2020

Greenhouse Status

Margot, have you ever noticed that value of the <hasGreenhouse> field in the game files remains "false", even after the Greenhouse is fixed and apparently working fine in play? I suppose it might not be an indicator of the building fix as I had assumed, but it seems odd. Might that relate to any bug you know of? Butterbur (talk) 18:10, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Nope, I never noticed before, but I checked old and new save files, and the field is always false. I can't find anywhere in the game code where it's used, it's declared but never called or altered. I can't think of any bugs that would cause offhand. My guess is that it's a leftover from pre-release days... margotbean (talk) 18:54, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Ah, thanks! Same thing in all my old files, and I've never seen an effect I could recognize as being related. Butterbur (talk) 23:41, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Reddit thread

If you haven't already, I thought you should see this reddit thread. Odin (talk) 16:01, 17 April 2020 (UTC)


Mom and Dad

Are you implying I ought to mastermind the entire wiki so that it's consistent in disambiguating player from character? I'd hate to do that if it's going to ruffle feathers. Tom Haws (talk) 05:16, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Ornate Necklace as Fish

Here's a bit of trivia I recently uncovered. Where do you think I should write it into the wiki? Or should I write it at all?

When you catch the Ornate Necklace (Secret Note #25 solution), it appears in the fishCaught item list in the SaveGameInfo file (parentSheetIndex 191). MouseyPounds' checkup tool does not include it in the count of fish caught. Butterbur (talk) 12:37, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

So, the Ornate Necklace counts towards the fishing achievements (catching 10 different fish, catching 24 different fish, and catching 100 fish)? Let's verify that, then it would belong on the Achievements page and the Ornate Necklace page. margotbean (talk) 14:44, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
Well, that is indeed the question. All I really know is that it is in that list in the file. What the program does with that I don't know. There's no UI portion that tells what counts towards achievements. There is only the fishing collection shown in the inventory, which may or may not indicate the same thing. And the necklace does not appear there.
We have seen before that the files can contain things that do not affect program operation - obsolete fields or the like. Here, it would seem to be something introduced in v1.4, but which is not recognized by earlier code. But I would guess that somewhere is a bug. Anything to be concerned about? I've seen nothing to indicate it. Do others (like me) mine the files for information? They might like to know, so they can watch for it and toss it out. I suppose that might be what MouseyPounds does. Butterbur (talk) 17:52, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
BTW, I had long since passed all the fishing achievements before I caught the necklace. No way for me to do any achievement checking in relation to it. Butterbur (talk) 18:09, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
Well, the save file keeps track of a lot of statistics that are used in the Casino, and a lot that aren't used at all. I would hope that the necklace gets "thrown out" when counting for achievements, the same way trash does.
The problem is a test save would require a player to reach winter of year 1 and find the secret note without fishing. That would take some time. margotbean (talk) 16:23, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
True, if you want to verify separately for each and every fishing achievement. However, it could more readily be tried with a saved file that doesn't include the necklace but does include every *real* fish. If Master Angler is given, then the necklace isn't necessary and doesn't count. If not, then it is and does - verifiable by going and getting the necklace. Then it might be time to try your way on the earlier achievements, to check the count. But my way is simpler and good enough (for me anyway) to reason that all achievements should be consistent: either count the necklace, or don't - and anything else is worthy of being called a bug. Butterbur (talk) 06:39, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Why delete Hidden Categories category

See title. Oath2order (talk) 19:23, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

See this. And instead of deleting, how about you turn them into redirects? Oath2order (talk) 16:15, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Redirects

So barring any objections I'm making the shirt name pages into redirects.

And also why delete Hidden Categories as a category? Oath2order (talk) 12:29, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I object to adding 300 redirects when the search function takes you to the Tailoring page already!
The reason I deleted the category is as stated in the comment to the edit, moderator preference. margotbean (talk) 16:33, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
So then as a moderator I can use my preference to create it? Further, your logic doesn't add up for the tailoring. It takes you to a search page, which you then have to click a second time to get to Tailoring. Should it not be a redirect to be as convenient as possible for the end user? If not, then I'm going to suggest we purge pages such as 2,500 Bundle or Agriculturist on the grounds of "the search function will take you to that page already". Oath2order (talk) 18:59, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
If you would like to delete those redirects, be sure nothing links to them first.
You haven't been an active moderator in over 3 years; if you're looking for something to do, there are several items in the 11 other languages that need to be done and several pending questions about 1.4 content that need to be researched. I can provide a list if you're interested, and also get you back up to speed on the current state of the wikis. You should also coordinate with the Admin before making major changes, but as a former moderator, you are surely already aware of that. Best regards, margotbean (talk) 19:18, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
My activity should not be a relevant factor in this debate. I do not speak any language other than English so my skills for the other wikis would be lacking.

Perhaps things have changed. Back in the day, I just *did* projects. None of the Admins seemed to care. On that note, you specify "the Admin". Which one? I'm sure you're aware that there are three. If I am to speak with one, I would need to know which one qualifies as "the".

You're still missing the point of Redirects. Those pages I listed **should not** be deleted. The goal of Redirects is to get people to their relevant page as quickly as possible. Which is why the shirt and pant pages should exist and be a redirect to Tailoring.

What needs to be researched and what is the state of the Wiki then? Oath2order (talk) 19:26, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Hey Oath - it's been a long time! The issue being discussed is one which has discussed in detail already - I understand you not being caught up with that discussion, and that's fine, but your moderator role doesn't grant you the right to disregard it entirely. Any time there are going to be hundreds of edits - especially new pages, it needs to be discussed first. I'm the only site admin - and there's never been a time when I wouldn't care about hundreds of new pages being created undiscussed.
Also, your inactivity is absolutely a relevant factor here - I'm sorry if you disagree. We've been working hard since you left, and site structure has been discussed and coordinated in great detail - you haven't been a part of that conversation for almost four years.
You're of course welcome to jump in and help however you'd like on the site, but since you haven't been involved in any discussions for a while you may need some time to get caught up! Margot has been moderating for a long time, and has full awareness of this history/discussion and most other issues. In the future please check (by posting on either Margot or my user talk pages or the appropriate article talk page) before doing any massive edits or changes. -- Katzeus (talk) 20:16, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Stackability

Item stackability is a significant factor in buying, transporting, and using them, so I think this property should be mentioned in many articles (at least for unstackable items). I've noted that Trap Bobber is unstackable, and am wondering if this is so for all tackle (as I am a light user of tackle in general - don't usually need it). I'd add mention to the Trap Bobber article, except I thought it might be better to add it to Tackle (assuming it applies to all). What say you? Butterbur (talk) 15:32, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Good idea, tackle is one of the few unstackable items left in the game. It should probably be mentioned on Tackle and on each tackle's page. Then, of course, v1.5 of the game will make them stackable, so we will have to change all the pages. ha ha margotbean (talk) 17:18, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
AH. So, that's actually a plan, then? And what is the time frame for release of v1.5? I'll go ahead and make the changes, unless there's not much of a useful window for the info. Butterbur (talk) 04:03, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
I was being facetious - I have no knowledge of when 1.5 will come out or what it will contain. So, we should make the changes. "We" meaning (ahem) mostly you.  :D margotbean (talk) 17:44, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Sigh. So much for my wishful thinking. Ok. I'll get on it tomorrow. And sorry. I've been taking on the characteristics of my confines, which are becoming increasingly dense: unlikely to get facetious, more likely to get fasciitis. :D Butterbur (talk) 05:46, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for your correction edit! I've repeatedly tried everything I could think of to take tackle off the rod, but of course, it never occurred to me the bait would get in the way. I've never gone fishing in real life, so I suppose that would just seem obvious to those who had. Now that I consider what that would be like, the game behavior seems a bit more reasonable. I had thought it was a bug, and was waiting for it to be fixed. Butterbur (talk) 13:48, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

User:Tom Haws

At es:Discusión:Cubo de basura you said: "Based on your last unfinished project, I'm going to strongly suggest you make none of these changes. The Admin and I discussed how to handle the pages before v1.4 was released, and the existing pages are what we decided on. Thanks very much for your understanding." As far as I know I am simply being considerate as opposed to headstrong. I am not aware of any unfinished project. Here you have yet another potential worker bee (me) you are putting off with hedge after hedge. No wonder you have to work so hard! Anyway, what's the unfinished project, assuming you want me to finish it? Tom Haws (talk) 23:16, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Prismatic Shard drop

I added a point where Prismatic Shard was dropped in Quarry Mine by Iron Slime. You removed the edit.

I also saw a note, where any monster can drop Prismatic Shard after reaching bottom of the mine. Did you mean the normal mine? Even if so, Quarry mine was not listed on the wiki. Hence, I would request to add the point there.

Do let me know your thoughts.

Hi, anonymous editor! If you read the Prismatic Shard page, it says "They have a small chance (0.05%) to be dropped by any monster after the player has reached the bottom of The Mines." On the Slimes page, in the infobox at the top right, under "Drops", it lists Prismatic Shard under "If reached bottom of Mines:". So, I think it's pretty clear already. Please remember to sign your posts with 4 tildes ~~~~! margotbean (talk) 16:46, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Concerning talkheaders

So... simple question: is it okay if I implement my own custom talkheader for my own talk page, or would you rather prefer having the "normal talkheader" instead? Kev (talk) 17:49, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Normal talkheader, that's why I changed it.  ;) margotbean (talk) 18:03, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

The Mines

Registering my thought that your last edit is not an improvement. Technically, "sell price" is well-defined. Its application in this context is not expected however, since you are buying back items, not selling them. In this way it can become confusing and misleading. You are too familiar with the subject to be misled, but not everyone is, and you do not see the problem properly. This is not the first time I have noted this tendency in your editing, and I suggest you give it some thought. The wiki is supposed to be for the novice as much as for the experienced player, perhaps even more so. I think you ought to question yourself more. Butterbur (talk) 05:17, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Healing Effect

Hi, why did you cancel my edits to the "Template: Infobox" and "Template Edibility" page? As for me, it will be much nicer to come out if energy and health are located in 2 different columns. Foxengton (talk) 06:30, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

As I said in the comment to the edit to Template:Infobox, the changes created errors on several pages. margotbean (talk) 09:06, 23 May 2020 (UTC)


Various different edits

I've been noticing that you've been constantly reverting my edits (along with a whole lot of other people here apparently). Why not edit the page itself and make the changes there instead of continuously reverting anything I do?

SPanda (talk) 16:14, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Deleted file in use

Hi! You deleted File:Modding - create GitHub repo.png, but it's used on the Modding:Open source page (it's just linked instead of shown inline). —Pathoschild (talk) 15:03, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for letting me know, I've restored it. Sorry about that! margotbean (talk) 17:14, 31 May 2020 (UTC)


Fruits Column Header

Why revert my commit for the column header on the Fruits page? "Artisan" refers to the profession. "Artisan Good" is the object you are selling. The jams, wines, etc which are listed in that column. SPanda (talk) 18:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Your edit was perfectly reasonable, as they are Artisan Goods. The reason I changed it was to be consistent with the Vegetables page, and the infoboxes on all the fruits' and vegetables' individual pages, where the word "Goods" is omitted. It's all about consistency. margotbean (talk) 19:16, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
Why isn't "goods" used on all those other pages too? That would make them consistent *and correct*. Butterbur (talk) 18:07, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
I'm a moderator on several gaming Wikis and to be very frank I've never encountered a fellow mod as controlling or reluctant to change. But I digress. I can update all the headers on those pages unless there are any objections to it. P.S. Margotbean, please write commit messages when reverting commits. A page's discussion section and its commit history should be the single source of truth for all changes, and having to come to your page to wonder why you reverted a change isn't really proper use of a wiki and its functionalities. SPanda (talk) 02:20, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
There are only 2 pages in question, the rest are located in the infobox template. The template is used in 12 languages, so any changes other than changing 2 pages in 12 languages and 12 instances of an infobox would introduce inconsistency. In short, I do object. margotbean (talk) 04:20, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Rigid systems do not work well in real life. Objection on the basis of too many changes being needed makes the wiki rigid. Perhaps a revision of the wiki design is in order. Perhaps a greater distribution of the work is in order. I don't know. I am not a moderator and have no wish to be. I am not trying to "make work" for anyone. But no matter who says it, your argument is flawed, and your position leaves the wiki in a position that it cannot be improved. To me, that seems the antithesis of what a wiki is for.
The problem is human. And every wiki I have ever seen runs into human problems. The same holds true of engineering projects. That's not your fault. Nobody likes to look at these things, but what's the alternative? Frozen obsolescence. There's no way you want that, Margot. You've done a ton of work to improve and update this wiki. That says more than your objection. So, this is a relatively minor (unimportant) change. How can the work be parceled out to the experts (speakers of the 12 languages, for example), and prioritized, and coordinated into the wiki at the same time? There's the real job. But creating the mechanism would produce ongoing benefits to the wiki for the many smaller projects that require many touches to complete. The problem is not so much this one change, but the whole scenario that I have heard repeated so often. Butterbur (talk) 07:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
One more opinion. Too much reliance on templates can create rigidity. Their application to ensure consistency and reusability, along with the benefits of those things, come at a cost. In engineering, in wikis, in life, when you reach a point that you can't solve a problem, then is the time to look at what a redesign, or at least a reimplementation, can give you. Butterbur (talk) 07:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Well said, but I believe you're reaching out to deaf ears. This is less a collaborative Wiki and more a single person's personal project that they can't objectively allow others to touch because they're too close to it. SPanda (talk) 02:36, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
I reached your ears, didn't I? Deaf ears can't hear - not their fault. It's closed minds that can't be reached. But eventually they suffocate in their own confines. Not my problem. Butterbur (talk) 06:19, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
FYI Margot, I speak Japanese and a bit of Chinese and those pages already mentions goods or "unit price" (rough translation). And it seems like the page doesn't even exist for the Turkish and Hungarian languages. Therefore your entire point of "inconsistency" already fails. Because some translations are either far behind the English page, actually correct, or incorrectly omit "goods". SPanda (talk) 02:36, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Weapon Defense

I did some testing with weapon defense and it doesn't actually do anything, Kdau mentioned he looked at the relevant code and confirmed the testing. I edited the Defense Page and the Weapon Page to mention this in the relevant catagories on them, but there may be more places where it needs to be edited. Draylon (talk) 05:52, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for commenting, this is a huge bug! Hopefully it will be fixed with v1.5, but I'll check the wiki for places that need changed (in all 12 languages). Yay.... :D margotbean (talk) 15:09, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

What Constitutes a Substantial Trivia Section?

So I added that some of the shirts on the Tailoring page might be references to certain characters, and it was removed because it was "unsubstantial". Can you please explain to me what a substantial trivia section is? NinjaMantaray (talk) 03:09, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

The word I used was actually unsubstantiated, which is different than unsubstantial. margotbean (talk) 16:49, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
Oh. So that's why I used "might", I never said they were references. Does everything on this wiki have to be 100% fact? NinjaMantaray (talk)
In this case we have a page full of different colored overalls, so a confirmation from ConcernedApe that any of them were inspired by any particular thing is necessary. margotbean (talk) 17:29, 25 June 2020 (UTC)